It’s coming to a neighborhood near you whether we like it or not, and, in this episode, Building Biology Environmental Consultant and Electromagnetic Radiation Specialist, Oram Miller, explains everything we need to know about the worldwide rollout of 5G. He’ll break down how 5G and 4G differ and how to determine if a cell phone company is planning to install 5G antennas near your house (and what this means for your health).
Oram will offer ways to protect yourself and your loved ones from 5G exposure. He’ll also share tips on getting involved in community activism. Finally, Oram will explain what, if any, alternatives to 5G exist, and if areas exist that we can be safe from 5G.
This episode is brought to you by The Building Biology Institute, a non-profit organization that is dedicated to the holistic science that you can embrace in their seminars, courses, certification programs, fact sheets and videos on designing, building, remediating health-supporting structures in harmony with planetary ecology. Join informative thinkers and stay up to date with new research on their Facebook page and find out more and become a member online HERE.
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Episode Links
- The Building Biology Institute
- Create Healthy Homes
- 5G Fifth Generation Cellular Technology (8/17/20 update)
Lisa Beres
This episode of healthy home hacks is sponsored by the building biology Institute to learn more about creating indoor environments that support health and wellness visit their free resources at www.BuildingBiologyInstitute.org
Narrator
How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury. healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, Val biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados Ron and Lisa Beres.
Lisa Beres
Today in America, we have 86,000 chemicals registered with the EPA for use and the products that we eat, were touch used to furnish our home. Most of these chemicals haven't even been tested for our health. The average home today contains 400 chemicals. And according to the EPA, indoor air in our homes today is two to five times and even up to 100 times more polluted than the outdoor air. Babies are being born pre polluted today with an average of 287 chemicals already in their blood. And friends. This is just the tip of the toxic iceberg.
Ron Beres
Case in point. So, Lisa and I were residents of Orange County, California. And we just received this letter from our local city that says, hey, guess what we're planning on installing a 5g antenna, otherwise known as a small cell antenna. And there's nothing really small about it. It's actually 11 times larger than me. And actually, I want to share with you some pieces of this letter that we have right here. And this is what it says the Moto Eucalyptus would be about 66 feet tall, and has eight antenna panels, eight radio remote units to Ray caps on microwave dish and accessory equipment enclosure. We so what do you think? I think I think the city seems to think that if it looks like a eucalyptus tree, then it's got to be healthy, right? I can't it's possible. It's a eucalyptus tree is a healthy bait and switch. I'll tell you that it's fake if you need to cover it up. So okay, so I'll read this further. This is what it says at the end. So, got me. So, the Telecommunications Act of 1996. The Federal Communications Commission, the FCC sets all radio frequency emission standards for potential health impacts. And the city is not permitted to set its own standards. We can't control this being placed in our backyard. And it can have tremendous health impacts that'll add us wildlife, vegetation.
Lisa Beres
We have no say, and to quote the mayor of Danville, California, and they actually tried to fight this. And basically, he says, we've lost control of the 5g rollout due to the federal government and big wireless, they're actually at risk of being sued the city by Verizon, because they're saying we don't want your tower. And they're saying too bad. You're going to get it and the least we can do is maybe move it if you think it doesn't look nice, but it has nothing to do with health implications.
Ron Beres
But we're about empowering you. We have good news. We're to this this podcast. The information today is about information and how you can actually solve some of the problems that 5g is creating. And we have an expert here he is Oram Miller, renowned expert I should say. He's a certified building biology environmental consultant, and electromagnetic radiation specialist based in Los Angeles, California. And if you want to find out more about him, you can go to create healthy homes.com Welcome aurum Miller, welcome. So good to have you. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks for inviting me. Oram is one of the best I will tell you that. Right off the bat. We're going to go right into the questions, Oram. I know you're chomping at the bit after hearing all this information. What is 5g?
Oram Miller
Can I comment on what you just read? Please, please?
There's a lot of interesting information packed in there. So first of all, what happened was, first back in 1996, the section 704. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 says that citizen groups cannot bring up health as a reason for a city council to deny a permit that's baked into that and that was during a Democratic presidential administration and democratic controlled Congress. So, industry rules on these sorts of things. And many people say that these regulatory agencies that are supposed to take care of us are captured by industry. That was a term that goes back to genetically modified organisms and led into versus, you know, those sorts of things historically. Another thing that I wanted to point out is that in last year in September of 2018, the FCC issued a ruling that led to this, which is that it took away local control from your municipalities in terms of this. And so, cities are fighting against 5g, but not because of health. It's an unlikely Alliance. They're doing it because of caps on how much they can charge for leasing. Oh, okay. I know that a third thing I want to mention that we can get onto the questions, daft attack over who's been lecturing a lot about 5g. She mentioned that back in 1984, when the sole industry wanted to take this technology that was originally developed by the military and move it into civilian use, they said to the American government, we want you to take the control of the health aspects of this out of the NIH and the EPA and put it into the Federal Communications Commission, which has one task and that is to a lot spectrum for broadcasters so that they don't interfere with each other, give them frequencies to broadcast that they have no medical personnel, and they said, Why are you giving this to us? We can't oversee this. Wow. But that was the whole point. So, they really don't have anybody who can. So, they're in charge of the health but they have absolutely no bearing and no, right. And in many cases, these lobbyists are asked by congressional aides to help write legislation because they say we don't know the technology the way you guys do. Can you help us? Right? There is more deficit. They're more lobbyists for the telecommunications industry in Washington, DC, roaming the halls of Congress than there are Congress people, because we're talking about a lot of money. Yeah, millions and billions of dollars, telecommunications industry. So, you can always follow the money trail well with these things. Well, the thing is, we all want this technology, everyone likes to have the convenience that wireless gives us but the problem as there's mega said that this technology is invisible, silent and odorless. So compared to cigarette smoke, you don't even know that it's there until you have either have symptoms, which not everyone does, even though there is so your harm, or you measure it with a meter that has sound on it.
Lisa Beres
Wow. And there have been zero safety study. No, no, no, no, no. By the industry. It's Oh, well.
Oram Miller
Industry actually did do some studying of radio frequencies, but they control the agenda. And that's a whole story relative to 5g. They've done 5g. No, there's no there haven't been studies on the technologies of 5g, but there have been studies, you know, thousands of studies on radio frequency,
Lisa Beres
Right? Yeah, yeah. But I meant 5g specifically, with this rollout being so aggressive, yet there's zero safety data provided by the industry?
Oram Miller
Oh, well, right.
Ron Beres
Let's look at segue because first question is, ultimately is what is 5g? And how does 5g differ from 4g?
Oram Miller
Okay, so it's important for people to know what 5g is, first of all, every decade or so, since the 1980s, we have a rollout of a generation of technology for the cell phones that we use. So, in the 80s, first generation was voice only second generation was in the 90s, with voice and text. Third generation 3g, as it's called, was in the 2000s. And that was voice text, and then data, accessing the web or email and web browsing, and then 4g, which were just rolling out of that decade, that was from 2010, or 2008, to about 2018. Last year. And that's 4g, and that included, faster and more robust.
Data Access, including streaming audio and streaming video. 5g is technically any technology that's coming out now in the coming decade, that will be 5g. So what everyone thinks, oh, are those people who have paid attention to us and started learning about it, what they think of and what they're what's been written about 5g, when they hear that term is signals that are in a part of the frequency spectrum that hasn't been used for cell coverage yet, until now, and that's above 20 gigahertz, okay? Now that for those frequencies have been used by the military for, for radar and for satellite TV, but not for cell coverage. But there's a lot of bandwidth up there. And it's called a millimeter band, because the wavelengths are very short, less than a quarter of an inch. And the you can put a lot of data over the air, but it doesn't go as far but there's a lot of data which can be downloaded or uploaded very fast. So that's the lore, but it doesn't go through buildings. You don't even need special paint or you know why shield or any of these paints. A normal building wall that's made out of wood or brick, or shingles will block the signal unless you beamforming so I'll get into that. Okay. Now there's another part of 5g that people don't know about, and that is the 5g that's going to be below six gigahertz. And that's the band that we call the low band that the industry calls it the low band from about 600 megahertz to 6000 megahertz, which is six gigahertz that's called the low band and mid band.
And mid bands about two gigahertz to six gigahertz. These are the frequencies that are in use now and happen with 3g and 4g. So, when you have a cell phone, now you're broadcasting in 800 900 1800 1900 megahertz that are in the low to mid band, the high band starts at 20 gigahertz and above, okay? Now, and they won't be doing so. So frequencies between six and 20, not for a while what's coming now in these small cell antennas that they want to add to the existing network of 300,000 4g antennas that we have now, on these macro cell sites that are about a mile and a half apart, that's what you're connecting to now for voice, texting and data, they want to add to that they're not taking those away, those will remain, they're going to drop in additional small cell antennas, which will be at lower power, but closer to homes. But it's not just going to be 5g equipment, above 20 gigahertz with a beam forming on those antennas, that those will be there. But in addition to that they're going to have right next to them on the same will actually right above them, usually a 4g LTE antenna. So, they're continuing with that technology. Why? Because the 4g antenna, locates the phone, instead of down to 50 feet, which is the best they can do with the macro towers are a mile and a half apart. With the with by dropping in small cell antennas with 4g transmitters on them every block in front of every two to 10 homes, in suburban neighborhoods and even more dense than that in urban areas, they will then be able to locate your phone down to three feet. And part of us you see is for the purpose of locating your phone so that when so they can extract data with the 5g equipment at very high speeds because of all the data that people give to their phones. And so that is going to be a revenue stream for the for industry for the cell carriers to sell that data to advertisers.
Lisa Beres
So, our Eucalyptus, metal, Eucalyptus, that's not being dropped in.
Oram Miller
Those are all right, those antennas that this letter is talking about will be small cell antennas.
Lisa Beres
56 feet small. Well, when I hear small, I think like a couple feet.
Oram Miller
Well, unless that's planned to be a macro tower, but how close are they going to be to each other?
Ron Beres
And it was unclear
Lisa Beres
Like every block. Oh, this is the only one we've been made aware of. And it's an intersection.
Oram Miller
Okay. All right. So, I think that what that is, is a 4g tower that that's a macro tower like we have, that's probably what that is. Well. Alright, but let's say what they're talking about a small cylinder
Oram Miller
So small cell antennas, remember, we'll have 5g and 4g equipment on there. So, the 4g transmitter will be always on at about 120 degrees wide, constantly bathing, the air in front of it and the homes in front of it with constant radio frequency signals. But we can measure those with our meters, you see because it's below six gigahertz. Now the 5g component in that this is something that people don't realize that when I say 5g, and I'm talking about now the part of it above 20 gigahertz, the beam form part that has to be being formed in order to get through walls, because of the wavelength being so short. And that's the one that's everyone is learning about in terms of the health and we'll get into that.
That is on demand. Every engineer that I've spoken to and I've been to trade shows where I've talked to engineers, and also their engineers, Professor Trevor Marshall and others who have helped me learn about this for the online course that I wrote, I was the lead author with a dozen other people inside and outside the building biology profession on 5g, which was posted in May of this year 2019 on the building biology institute.org website under courses. So, what Trevor Marshall and all these engineers said is that when the signal from the 5g antenna above 20 gigahertz, the beam form signal is only sent out when a device initiates the connection. Number one, number two, that signal is narrow it the beamforming. Some engineers told me two degrees, some said 15 degrees so I write two to 15 degrees because that's the maximum that I think whereas the 4g is 120 degrees wide and it's always on. So, there's always on 4g and on demand 5g so depends on how much traffic there is for the 5g, how much demand there is. All right. And now think about this from a standpoint of someone living in suburbs, the city is going to be different. If you're in urban areas, they'll be 5g signals everywhere at least saturated if you're electrically sensitive, you're not going to do well in the cities will they all be being formed since they are going to have buildings and anything above 20 gigahertz you know that the all signals that are in the 20 gigahertz and above range 20 420-825-2839 and even 60 gigahertz. These are the frequencies that have already been. Some of them have been allotted. Others are coming up for auction in November next year. Verizon has some options, AT&T has, T Mobile, they all have, Spectrum, whether they bought or they want to buy, anything that's transmitted up there is going to be on demand. And it's going to be narrow, but there'll be a lot of it in cities, those
Lisa Beres
Will be the most dangerous areas for 5g. Perfect. Yes.
Oram Miller
But don't forget 4g transmitters that we have. Now, I haven't mentioned this yet. They're going to be upgraded to 5g technology. So, what is that going to involve? Well, beamforming will be done down to two gigahertz. So, there's the whole mid band section from two to six gigahertz, that's 4g now will be b can be been formed, number one. Number two, there'll be modulation there will be a densification, there'll be much more of the signals more modulated and the modulated signals have a much worse health effect than the signals that are not modulating as much. And so, the way that the industry is describing it is when T Mobile who just bought the 600-megahertz band, okay. I mean, portions of that. And they're advertising that that's they're rolling out 5g now. And they have spectrum that's in the mid band for their 4g, you know, transmissions and also above 20 gigahertz. But in the 600-megahertz band, I asked the antenna manufacturers, I said, Well, what makes the 600-megahertz 5g I can't mean for him because it's below two gigahertz or 2000 megahertz. And they said, the modulation compacting of the signals more signals in the same airspace. So, what this is going to be is enhanced 4g, it'll be maybe a few hundred megabits per second, instead of 1000 megabits per second. That's what you're going to get with the beam form 5g above 20 gigahertz. It's like a one to two gigahertz, or mega gigabits per second, sorry. So, the enhanced 4g that's being called 5g will be souped up 4g. But it won't be as fast as the 5g in the bands above 20 gigahertz. Everyone has health impacts from this if you hold a cell phone to your heart to your head, even for two minutes ever, all the researchers who work on this say that there's DNA fragmentation does damage to the mitochondria, that they're all these effects on a cellular level 100% 100% damage to the cells
Lisa Beres
And the next national not to interrupt but the national toxicology program just completed their 10-year study $30 million and found for sure, clear evidence of cancer connection, and heart and DNA breakdown.
Oram Miller
So however, the same researchers say two thirds of the population can repair that damage at night.
So, this is the dilemma for me and my colleagues in the building biology profession and other EMF professionals around the world, that we have clients who say I want to be safe, I want a healthy home, I want you to help me with that. But I don't want to go too far. You know, those are code words to me, they say, but I want to keep my Wi Fi. And so, I know that I have to educate them about things that they don't know. And because of the concerted effort on the part of industry, in collaboration, unfortunately, to dark collaboration with regulatory agencies that they've captured, who don't tell us the truth, and media that doesn't tell us the truth because of the advertising. Alright, so that'll I think that's a great point. And I think one of the things that Ron and I hear all the time from clients is, oh, if it was that, if it was that dangerous, we'd hear, right? Because we hear that about chemicals in your home. And I'm sure you hear this all the time in terms of electromagnetic radiation. And the thing is, is people have to understand, if you if you do the digging, you'll find thousands of peer reviewed studies. But if you're listening to the nightly news, you won't, you won't.
So, Josh, del Sol and Sergey just collaborated on the 5g summit, which is now ongoing, and I'll be part of the post module presentation that's coming out in just a few weeks. And the thing is cc Doucet, who's an activist in Massachusetts, who has an interesting story about how she got in into this said that, that on the cursory look of this, you know, she heard that there was no evidence that there was any harm. That's what the industry and that's what physicists say, and engineers and industry. But when you when you do what she calls the deep dive, chances are that she used that word like three or four times. When you know, because she talked to some people in her City Council on her school board. She said when the school board member went did the deep dive and looked at the research and saw how compelling it is and how extensive it is. And they said, how come I don't know about it? So, the biggest problem that I have is that when I tell my clients about the health effects of these things, many don't understand why it is that they don't know. So, you alluded to that. But also, the problem is if they don't feel the symptoms, and half of my clients don't there are too many people who have symptoms who have electrical hypersensitivity by their own admission, and I would agree with them, but they're still using their cell phone.
Lisa Beres
Do you think they're addicted to this technology addicted to the convenience or just don't want to be bothered by making the change and doing what, what needs to be done?
Oram Miller
All of the above, I think that they, they like the convenience, and they don't necessarily feel the effects. It's hard to make a decision to be hardwired because it takes diligence. It takes commitment, especially spouses of people who are symptomatic. You know, they say, Well, how could this be?
Lisa Beres
Crazy, you must be crazy. Yeah, especially with mold, exposures and a lot of chemical sensitivities and things like that. That's very common, you know that one person's, a lot of times the woman experiencing it, because she's sensitive, she's sensitive, she has more body fat, unfortunately. And stores toxins in the tissues and men. And also, women tend to spend more time in the home. And so, if they're getting more exposure to the particular source than men, that's a problem as well.
Oram Miller
So, we have sensitivities, and the needs of people who are sensitive are not being taken into account. Now what electrically sensitive people need to know is that it's not true that everyone's going to end up like them, because they are deathly afraid of that, literally Tell me, I want you to convince my husband not to use a cell phone so much, but the thing is electrically sensitive, people need to understand that there are going to be people who are in the population who are exposed to this stuff and use these technologies who do not have symptoms, and then never will, on a cellular level. Yes, there is some harm, but they're not going to go on to develop Frank disease. And the problem is these people are more than half of the population. That's why we're having such a difficult time trying to get this change. But we've done it before with a specialist letting go and tobacco.
Ron Beres
They're not the canary in the coal mine that is in there, but they are being affected.
Lisa Beres
Do you think that people that are getting electro sensitivities earlier or have lowered immune system? Do you think it's an effect of chemical exposures and other toxic lifestyle? Or do you think it's just genetic?
Oram Miller
Someone's going to get it in some or all of the everything you just said? can be a reason for it. From what I understand prior exposure to chemicals or electrical, electromagnetic fields, there's a certain genetic propensity to this super oxidase dismutase, calcium voltage gated calcium channels, the work of Dr. Martin, Paul, and others are trying to figure out why is it that certain people are sensitive to these things? sensitive people comprise half of my clientele and client half, and the client, half of the clientele of our colleagues Balaji profession
Lisa Beres
And, Oram tell us for these clients that are sensitive? What are the symptoms that you see repeatedly in everyone so that people listening know, hey, maybe that's something I'm experiencing?
Oram Miller
The common symptoms that I hear from my clients, and I basically do EMF only now, I did the full scope of our work for the first half of my practice. But since moving to California, I've been focusing on EMF only. And what I hear primarily from people are any of the number of things in no particular order, headaches, numbness and tingling ringing in the ears, brain fog takes more higher doses of medications to get the same effect. So those are the things that I commonly hear from people,
Lisa Beres
Right. And I guess that's what we're dealing with the population is people get used to their symptoms, they get used to feeling bad, they get used to taking their medication, instead of actually looking at the source and saying, Hey, could this be my environment? Could this be Yes?
Oram Miller
Then people say to me, Well, how do I know it? And that I have electrical sensitivity? I have some of those symptoms from time to time. How do I know? And so, my answer is those people who know that they're electrically sensitive, figured out that when they remove themselves from that environment, or go somewhere else, they feel better, and then they come back, or when they turn certain things off. They read about him; they see there's a pattern. That's right. So, what people need to understand getting back to 5g is that 4g is here, and it's been affecting us in an adverse way. And really, we shouldn't, I'm not saying that it's safe to use these technologies for half the population, it's not a good thing. Because in the building biology profession, we say reduce use increased distance in favor hardwired connections whenever possible.
Lisa Beres
Can you repeat that again? Yeah, reduce use, increased distance, increased distance, and
Oram Miller
Favor hardware and a wired connection when you're out of the house. You don't have to be connected to people all the time. There are things you can do with your cell phone, not just put it in airplane mode, you can actually turn off Bluetooth, Wi Fi and cellular data when you're out. But don't put it in airplane mode, and all that's on anymore. And also, a location, the only thing that will remain is voice and text isn't would that be the same as airplane mode? No, there'll be the least amount of pinging the least amount of because every time a notification comes to your phone, every time the cell character company, through the local cell tower wants to do an update or notify you know, if you're running your texts and your emails and your WhatsApp and Snapchat and all that stuff through your phone. All the apps you have the more apps you have the more notifications the more downloads and more upgrades and so on every time there's something coming to your phone, like on Facebook, all that stuff where you're constantly like teenager or you know Millennials are constantly in constant like nonstop there's something called the electronic handshake and then Electronic handshake means that the tower sends out a signal saying I have a message for you, I have an update, I have a notification. And so, the cell phone sends back a signal you're getting that the saying I'm, I'm ready and then they sync up. And that that transmission is the is going into your body as well as going a mile away too.
Lisa Beres
Right? Okay, so you should turn off your, as a general rule of thumb, turn off your push notifications to Yes, every time you're getting a push notification on 20.
Oram Miller
But, what if you're millennial now you're out of the loop. Now you're not now. So, when we say electric, we start with what electrically sensitive people need. And then for people who are sort of in the middle there, they wonder how can I be healthier? I'll tell them this is what this is what we recommend you go hardwire because everything I just mentioned, almost everything you can do on hard wired Ethernet connected computers, and even iPhones and iPads, the Apple products in a home with a lightning to Ethernet Adapter that's grounded. Another thing that with grounded shielded Ethernet cable and the Ethernet grounding adapter kit, and that keeps it grounded, so you don't have electric fields. And then you can but that doesn't make it safe. Sure, you have to put it in airplane mode completely. But then you can get on the internet and do everything that I just mentioned, for most of these devices, including some phone calls. And then that gets into more detail.
Lisa Beres
So that's in our home. And I know there's so many tips and we're only scratching the surface today obviously at www.BuildingBiologyInstitute.org
Oram Miller
Yeah, and my site is www.CreateHealthyHomes.com
Lisa Beres
So, you can get more information on that. But going back to 5g and these small cell antennas that are being put up. So, a lot of listeners now are going oh my gosh randomly so that a letter good for them. But I haven't gotten a letter. Supposedly they're going up every two to 10 homes.
Oram Miller
That's the plan that's dropped and then on every residential street, every two to 10 homes now in in urban areas. They're going to have single poles a strand mounts where they put them up on utility poles, 4g and 5g transmitters, particularly 5g, they're going to have something called a magic box, which is a 5g device that will go in every couple of floors on apartment buildings and, and commercial buildings and stadiums, college campuses, parks, bus stops, men under manhole covers, they're literally going to try and saturate every squarish. Why because even though less than half of the users are in urban areas, but more than half of the traffic is in urban areas. That's where the goldmine is, that's where the money is for the cell companies, because that's where the users are. Okay? Where is the traffic, the data traffic? So that's where all the investment is going into. So, they can ricochet off buildings and geolocate?
Lisa Beres
Or tell listeners, how can they find out if a 5g antenna is going to be placed near their home?
Oram Miller
I honestly don't know the answer to that as well as other people do. Because I'm not an activist or advocate, my focus is on working with clients just for advice on how to find emfs and mitigate them recommending my clients. So that's my focus. So, but to answer that question, people should contact their city, whatever department is in charge of issuing the permits for those sorts of things. And that's supposed to be public knowledge.
Lisa Beres
And probably just assume, I mean, if there is going to be an antenna every two to 10 homes.
Oram Miller
Well, that's the plan, right? in suburban areas. Yeah.
Lisa Beres
So, you're so if you're in a suburban area, you should assume you're going to have one near you. So, you need to take the next steps, which we're going to get into in a minute, or I'm going to give us some great mitigation techniques.
Ron Beres
Perfect, but we do have a caller on the line it is Brett, and he's going to be asking a question for Oram Miller.
Caller, Brett
Ron and Lisa, thanks for taking my call. Yeah. Do you have a question about 5g and the towers? Now? Where are these towers located? There's every major city out there? How close or how far do I have to be from these towers to not get the, I guess, negative effects from them? Got my phone as well. And I see the 5g pop up. I mean, how much harm is doing the and what should I do about that?
Ron Beres
That’s a long question, Oram. Are you ready?
Oram Miller
Well, there's a couple parts to that. One is how close or how far is safe? And also, 5g on the phone?
Lisa Beres
Yeah. All right. All right, that already I haven't seen it on mine.
Oram Miller
This is complicated. So, you know, you get your cell phones through your cell carrier, right? I'll start with AT&T. AT&T is releasing what they call 5g LTE or 5g plus, that's actually modified 4g. Now they are putting out true 5g antennas in certain cities are about a dozen cities and even more now that they're putting them in and if you go to their if you go to the website of each one of these cell carriers, they already have maps showing where they have coverage. And like T Mobile has that for their 5g and they have the maps there for Los Angeles, Atlanta, Cleveland, New York, you know, and I looked at them and, and this there are a number of streets in downtown right around downtown LA and a little bit beyond that. Not every Street in Manhattan. It's pretty saturated. But In LA, it's here in there. And it's going to continue to grow. But it's mostly focused around downtown. But remember, that's t mobile's 600 Giga, a megahertz 5g, which is really 4g, and it will be informing. But it just means more densification more modulation of the signal, which is not healthy. But remember your 4g phone in your pocket? I mean, everyone's No, no. And here's the thing people say to me, or I'm so worried about that cell tower out the window. And that smart meter on my neighbor's house, and they're not paying attention to the phone in their pocket and attention to the Bluetooth. You know, their cordless, telephone base unit. It's always emitting, and on and on.
Caller, Brett
Okay, so we have another caller. Christine is on the line today. She has a question as well.
Caller, Christine
Hi, I'm calling today because I'm wondering if anyone has heard about the negative effects of 5g. I've heard some negative, like health facts for kids to have a faster connection.
Oram Miller
So as reminded us the Navy, the military has done two reviews of how many studies was at 5000? Did you guys hear her talk? 5000 studies, there's a lot I don't know, in the 70s. They released that. It's public knowledge. And so, when the regulatory agencies the FCC says there's no evidence of harm, they're not even acknowledging that the US government has released compendium of information showing how sailors are affected adversely, oh, electromagnetic field. Okay, in the 1970s. And there are many other studies, the bioinitiative working group
Lisa Beres
29 scientists from 10 countries 1500-page report with thousands, thousands of peer reviewed studies on dangers from wireless.
Oram Miller
Yes, mostly done outside the United States. Now, Deborah Davis's group, the environmental health trust, they're, they're a good resource to Dr. Martin Paul and his work with voltage gated calcium channels, Dr. JACK Cruz in his work, he's a neurologist, he's really sounding the alarm about 5g,
Ron Beres
all this information is so important. That's why we need the documentary more than ever. So, the building biology Institute is actually going to put together a documentary on this subject matter, which is so important. I know, we're just scratching the surface here, too. It's such a strong need for this material.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, it's going to be a feature length documentary. And unlike a lot of documentaries that you may have heard about 5g or other wireless issues, this was this is going to have real life solutions to real life problems. So, it's very practical hands on. And it's also going to give us solutions where we don't have to abandon our devices like some of your clients who say, Oh, you can hardwire just about everything. Yeah, sure. There's no reason to sacrifice This isn't about giving something up. This is about gaining something and gaining health and protecting yourself protecting your family, and ultimately, our planet, because we're talking about planetary damage.
Ron Beres
Oram, you have the ear of our callers. We got another caller.
Caller
I'm so happy you're having this show. You know, there's been a lot of talk about the 5g, and I'm not even sure what it's going to do for me.
Oram Miller
Okay, well, well, industry has been chomping at the bit to get this 5g out. And so, what they're promising is a faster download speeds, more real time, lower latencies for virtual reality. And of course, you need real time for autonomous cars. And who knows if that's ever going to really happen eventually, I'm sure but, but the point is, none of this has been tested. And there are faster ways of getting data into homes. And that's with hardwired connections, fiber to the premises, local area connections within the house like you guys have done here. And with your Ethernet cable.
Ron Beres
Which is so reliable.
Oram Miller
it's what's interesting is when I come down here to Orange County, and I work with and in Los Angeles with low voltage contractors who are responsible not for the electrical wiring, that's the electricians. These guys and women are responsible for putting in the network for controlling the lights for music everywhere for having TVs and internet and telephone coverage. And they tell me I'm on the same page as you I want, I put in miles of cable, Ethernet and coaxial cables and other cables not for health. They do it for speed, reliability, security and stability in the whole system. Other countries are way ahead of the United States in this regard. Japan and Korea have very fast download speeds right to the house. And so, the thing is we have cable companies and telephone companies that provide wired connections that are very fast right to the house but they're regulated by the public utilities Commission's in the state with sell companies are not regulated and they're putting in miles of fiber. Yeah, where you can send terabytes of file of information for pennies on the fiber optic up to the small cell antenna. And then the last mile, which is only 30 to 50 feet 100 feet is going to be spraying that wirelessly with 4g and 5g in front of homes and because they're wireless for that little last part called the last mile, quote unquote, they will not be regulated. They can charge whatever they want.
Lisa Beres
Whoo. It’s a lot to take in, Oram. Going back to the safety. You know, the hard wired is not only better for your health, but corporations, they don't use wireless.
Oram Miller
Oh, and I know how to use both actually, but most companies still prefer to be wired. Yeah. Because it's more reliable for the network. Absolutely. So, are more people where can people go for more information on you is its great healthy homes calm? Yes, creates healthy homes calm now for the building biology profession. Again, we have a 57-page technical online course. And they're available on the building biology website, which is www.buildingbiologyinstitute.org is also a free three-page summary.
Ron Beres
Speaking of summaries, this is a lot to take in a lot of information, it's very, you know can be can be confusing, right to someone who's listening in. So, can you give us a teaser? Maybe of what can someone do now to protect themselves from five G's or like a tip that.
Lisa Beres
Give us five tips, if you can.
Oram Miller
Sure. Well, first of all, get a meter. Yeah. And that will measure the part of 5g that's below six gigahertz, you have to understand and remember that 5g includes signals above 20 gigahertz, that everyone's hearing about being point signals that are dangerous, but then also from six gigahertz down to 600 megahertz. Okay, so that's the low to mid band. The other thing I just described is the high band. So, we have two areas of 5g. And, and, and the 4g transmitters are not going away. And they're going to be added to the small cell antennas that are going to be dropped in between the macro cell towers that are every mile and a half apart. And they want to put the cell industry wants to put they call it antenna just densification they call it a million-mile challenge, but it's actually they're looking at, they're thinking 13 million will be won't even be enough. Now Wow, drop in. And I don't know if that's worldwide, or just in North America. But anyway, drop those in, in every residential neighborhood, so that they can geolocate your phone down to three feet instead of 50 feet, which is what it is now, with 4g alone with the macro towers. And then the problem with that is you instead of having 800 to 1000 watts effective radiated power maximum on these macro cell towers a mile and a half apart, these small cell antennas for the 4g, which will be always on spring and out to your house 30 to 100 feet away will be 10 watts, I've seen a couple of hundred watts and some of these applications. And even though it's lower power by either, you know, 80% or even more than that, but it's still going to be closer. So, the power density will be higher. I have read my meter, my radio frequency meter, hundreds of thousands of micro meter squared from 4g antennas that are in front of homes, by the way, if anybody picks up any signals on their towers, on their RF meters that they own, from a new tower that that is now in front of people's homes. That wasn't there before you know, or maybe been there for a little while. But it and you know people say that the fight that's a 5g Tower. Yeah, I mean, the technician will say, yeah, I'm putting in 5g, but that's good. If they're picking up a signal that wasn't there before. That's not 5g above 20 gigahertz. Nobody has meters that that can measure there. Well, one or two people do.
Ron Beres
This is the obviously a major health issue. But people that say new towers are coming up new antennas are coming up all the time. Wouldn't that even decrease the property value of someone's home?
Oram Miller
No,
Lisa Beres
No? No seven percent. If it's in if it's if it's within a few feet, it would decrease the value of a home by seven percent.
Oram Miller
Okay. I'm not going to argue with that. What I'm being I'm being somewhat cynical here because, you know, there's so many people out there who think this is a great thing that I've got better coverage.
Ron Beres
So initially, they may not realize it, but later might be a problem.
Oram Miller
Well, if you look at the arc of history, I mean, we've all gone we've gone through as a civilization worldwide, tobacco was first then tobacco and leaded gasoline, genetically modified organisms if he wasn't DDT. And with all of them, there was an initial period where industry said there's no problem and they denied right to the end that there was ever an issue. And then the whistleblowers came out. And they found out that they were that the industry knew they were sitting on the knowledge. Because, in fact, I know people, I have clients who say, I've seen documents. I won't go into more detail than that.
Lisa Beres
There's innocent interpreting guilty mentality with a lot of this.
Oram Miller
Yeah. So, suffice it to say, industry is rolling ahead with this because they're of a mind that there is no evidence of any harm. That's their starting point. Okay. Engineers believe that that's what they're taught. And so, we say at least take into account the people who are sensitive to these devices. And we have to find common ground. We have to build bridges. We have to find ways of finding common solutions. That take into account these individuals, if the industry is not going to do it, and if regulatory agencies are not going to do it, people need to get educated and have building biologists and other EMF professionals assist them to get shielding in their homes. So, for instance, the shielding that we have now, when you measure and so you can reduce the signal coming in from outside.
Ron Beres
So, let’s say you're shielding your home from RF coming from outside Yes, very important thing to say. So, the graphite paint and you want to get into some of those things.
Oram Miller
Well, there's at least three different paints, there's a carbon-based graphite paint, why shield? There's Cooper code, which is copper based, and then there's air pure, which is nickel based. So, these are paints that can be used to layers, and then
Ron Beres
it starting to catch up isn’t it? Can someone just go hammers going to put this paint all over my house? I don't need a building biologist to come in and do that. Would that be a safe thing?
Oram Miller
Well, a lot of people do that. Because we're not everywhere. I don't have enough building budget; we need more we hope people will be inspired to
Lisa Beres
And I've seen this team for sale at Walmart. I mean, back in the day, you had to buy it through a specific you know, from Germany. Yeah. Rob Metzinger Yeah, and Safe Living Technologies thank you but running I saw on the Walmart website y-shield.
Oram Miller
You can buy Y-Shield from Amazon. And, and the y-shield company and safe living technologies, they all have, you know, very detailed instructions from the paint manufacturers on how to apply. So anyway, so that's one thing. And then there's a building foil, building grade foil that can be put between sheet rock and the studs. So there has to be done at new construction, or Yeah, or remodeling, or some people put it on their, over their sheetrock on the inside of the exterior wall. Safe living technologies and other vendors sell that, then you have a mesh, and then you have like to protect and other mesh. And you can just get copper or aluminum screen from the hardware store or fabric like Argent mesh, and daylight and
Lisa Beres
That you would put a canopy over your bed.
Oram Miller
Get a canopy. And what the four things that I just mentioned, the paints, the foil, the mesh, and fabric and also window filling, right, you have to do that to those things are good by enlarge for frequencies below six gigahertz. And we think because nobody's tested it, but we believe according to the curve, if you look at the curve, the lines for the paint, and the foil don't drop, they continue strong in terms of the amount of protection all the way to 18 gigahertz. And if you project out, we believe we anticipate that that the paint and the foil will continue to protect for the 20 gigahertz and above signals that will be coming in.
Ron Beres
Well, here's the great news. When you go to www.buildingbiologyinstitute.org you can find consultant, your area.
Lisa Beres
Go to www.building biologyinstitute.org.
Ron Beres
They're well versed in all these various topics and these products and what to do and how to remedy the situation.
Lisa Beres
When you list all those things. Are you saying do one of them or all of them? I mean, in a perfect world?
Oram Miller
Well, when I work with people, I mean, no two clients are ever alike. There are financial considerations, where are they on the spectrum of how sensitive they are? Who's living in the house, and then it's my job and the job of my colleagues to try and find common ground and find common solutions that work for everybody. So, as you said on the building budget website, which is building biology institute.org at the top, there is find an expert Yes. And on that drop-down menu, you click on environmental specialist, I believe it is environmental consultants. And then that takes you to a page that has a listing of all the building biologists who are members of the building biology Institute, you know, I'm in there and that's listed alphabetically by state and province, okay, and these are all building biology, environmental consultants, and building biology and excuse me, electromagnetic radiation specialists. And then there's another grouping of people who are building biology, new construction consultants who are architects and builders a relatively new program that's been going on for three years. Yeah.
Lisa Beres
Education and getting people to understand that is the
Ron Beres
Yeah, that's a great point. So, like right now people probably thinking like wow, I do want to fix things but I'm lucky I'm not retiring or moving somewhere out of the state. Is there any place that I can go to any area where I can be safe from 5g not have to worry about this?
Oram Miller
Ah, okay, safer, safer, safer, because again, for every place has 4g now and of course, we're talking about the drones and the satellites. But everyone needs to understand that because I done some research on this couple years ago, the highest percent highest concentration of radio frequencies will be under the under the moving drone and or balloon or satellite in low Earth orbit. Okay. And so, the it'll be this path, and it drops off on other side of that. And it's really this again.
Ron Beres
Alright, there's someone's delivering a package via a drone to my house.
Oram Miller
Oh, no, no, no. Okay, so these are drones that are being lost or being launched as we speak. I mean, companies are putting satellite low satellites in low Earth orbit. If you're at 22,000 miles up, you're in geostationary orbit, you don't move relative to the earth underneath you. So, we're talking about satellites that are like 60,000 feet. That's where Google loon balloons were going to be. And we're not sure whether that's still going to manifest or not, but the balloons are there above whether they can move them around with little propellers. And then there's drones. And then there's low Earth satellites, they're all on about the same strata up there about 12 miles and a little bit higher up. So, they're above weather, so they're not affected by the winds. They're twice as high as jet aircraft flying, which is five miles up or 16 30,000 feet, we're talking 60,000 feet, which I think is 12 miles up, right. So they're going to do swaths, and they're going to cover the earth, but the biggest concentration is right below and the maximum that Trevor Marshall and Alistair Phillips estimated was about one micro watt per meter squared maximum underneath this thing is as it travels, and it drops off laterally from there, okay, and it's only when it passes over. So, it's not like constantly beaming every square inch with high radio frequency levels. Yeah, this is the thing that people need to understand the thing that is that produces more RF into your body more radio frequencies are the cell phone in your pocket
Lisa Beres
Alright, so that's controllable. Guys, I mean, are you listening, listening? At home?
Oram Miller
By factors of 10s of thousands. Yeah. above what everyone's fearing is coming in from outside.
Ron Beres
Okay, well, then I do have a question. So, is there a particular place in North America that is just safer? You would suspect even though we have never? Yeah, what would be like a safe patch? For me?
Lisa Beres
Ron’s planning our next vacation.
Oram Miller
What we understand is that and what industry says themselves is that the high band, the millimeter band frequencies above 20 gigahertz, that's 5g will be more concentrated in urban areas and in suburban areas, not in rural areas. For a long time to come.
Ron Beres
It's just no? If you had to pick a state right now in your head? Rural areas. Okay, so world, what do you envision when you say rural?
Oram Miller
I'm not? No, no, any place any place that you leave Texas, it's a way for people to buy from people because think of it from the standpoint of the companies, they want return on their investment. Yep. And these things cost money, even small cell antennas cost money to put up in terms of your infrastructure, your hardware costs, and then they cost money for leasing. Yeah, that's you have to pay somebody.
Lisa Beres
So, Oram, do you think is this 5g rollout, to help people get better and faster service? Or is this all about selling data?
Oram Miller
So, they're going to be competing with the fixed companies with fixed connections over cable and telephone, all the way into the house, because they're already regulated? I'm talking about, you know, Cox, Comcast spectrum for cable. And then for telephone, it's like frontier now the old Verizon and AT&T. And so, they offer telephone, internet and television, into the house, but there's a cap on how much they can charge. The cell companies want to compete with them for what's called under fixed wireless, not mobile, what there's mobile wireless, and there's fixed wireless, mobile, wireless is putting 5g on your phone, which by the way, the 5g antenna doesn't work well, when you start moving. It only works if you're still. And if you're home. What are you going to be connected to? What is the guy next door? What's he going to be connected to first with his phone now for the last 10 years, with the hybrid phones that they have? Wi Fi? That's where he's going to get his data and all this 5g stuff by the way the data not voice and text. So, he's going to connect first and foremost, to the thing that provides the strongest fastest signal. Well, that's going to be his Wi Fi network in his house. So, if there's an in this there is a 4g Tower a mile down the street. Well, his friend who comes to visit who doesn't have the password for his Wi Fi network, his friend takes out his phone and wants to look at data and he's going to go to the 4g Tower a mile away right and he may have sprint and your neighbor has T-Mobile.
Lisa Beres
Oram, give us give us one last thing before we wrap up. What is the building biology profession recommend? And give us three tips right now your three best tips what people can do right now to improve their situation whether it's 4g 5g,
Oram Miller
okay, well become educated education
Lisa Beres
and there's so many free resources on the building biology Institute website. Yes, yes. www.buildingbiologyinstitute.org
Oram Miller
And I have my own website createhealthyhomes.com but also when it comes to wireless devices the three things that that I don't think we're the ones who I don't know who came up with this, we're not the only one to say this, but they are reduce use increased distance and favor hard wired connections whenever and wherever.
Lisa Beres
You guys, thank you. Thank you so great and we only scratched the surface. There's so much more you can learn.
Ron Beres
there really is at building biology institute.org
Lisa Beres
Or, Oram’s website at createhealthyhomes.com and thanks guys for tuning in.
Narrator
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Lisa Beres
This episode of healthy home hacks is sponsored by the building biology Institute to learn more about creating indoor environments that support health and wellness visit their free resources at www.BuildingBiologyInstitute.org
Narrator
How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury. healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, Val biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados Ron and Lisa Beres.
Lisa Beres
Today in America, we have 86,000 chemicals registered with the EPA for use and the products that we eat, were touch used to furnish our home. Most of these chemicals haven't even been tested for our health. The average home today contains 400 chemicals. And according to the EPA, indoor air in our homes today is two to five times and even up to 100 times more polluted than the outdoor air. Babies are being born pre polluted today with an average of 287 chemicals already in their blood. And friends. This is just the tip of the toxic iceberg.
Ron Beres
Case in point. So, Lisa and I were residents of Orange County, California. And we just received this letter from our local city that says, hey, guess what we're planning on installing a 5g antenna, otherwise known as a small cell antenna. And there's nothing really small about it. It's actually 11 times larger than me. And actually, I want to share with you some pieces of this letter that we have right here. And this is what it says the Moto Eucalyptus would be about 66 feet tall, and has eight antenna panels, eight radio remote units to Ray caps on microwave dish and accessory equipment enclosure. We so what do you think? I think I think the city seems to think that if it looks like a eucalyptus tree, then it's got to be healthy, right? I can't it's possible. It's a eucalyptus tree is a healthy bait and switch. I'll tell you that it's fake if you need to cover it up. So okay, so I'll read this further. This is what it says at the end. So, got me. So, the Telecommunications Act of 1996. The Federal Communications Commission, the FCC sets all radio frequency emission standards for potential health impacts. And the city is not permitted to set its own standards. We can't control this being placed in our backyard. And it can have tremendous health impacts that'll add us wildlife, vegetation.
Lisa Beres
We have no say, and to quote the mayor of Danville, California, and they actually tried to fight this. And basically, he says, we've lost control of the 5g rollout due to the federal government and big wireless, they're actually at risk of being sued the city by Verizon, because they're saying we don't want your tower. And they're saying too bad. You're going to get it and the least we can do is maybe move it if you think it doesn't look nice, but it has nothing to do with health implications.
Ron Beres
But we're about empowering you. We have good news. We're to this this podcast. The information today is about information and how you can actually solve some of the problems that 5g is creating. And we have an expert here he is Oram Miller, renowned expert I should say. He's a certified building biology environmental consultant, and electromagnetic radiation specialist based in Los Angeles, California. And if you want to find out more about him, you can go to create healthy homes.com Welcome aurum Miller, welcome. So good to have you. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks for inviting me. Oram is one of the best I will tell you that. Right off the bat. We're going to go right into the questions, Oram. I know you're chomping at the bit after hearing all this information. What is 5g?
Oram Miller
Can I comment on what you just read? Please, please?
There's a lot of interesting information packed in there. So first of all, what happened was, first back in 1996, the section 704. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 says that citizen groups cannot bring up health as a reason for a city council to deny a permit that's baked into that and that was during a Democratic presidential administration and democratic controlled Congress. So, industry rules on these sorts of things. And many people say that these regulatory agencies that are supposed to take care of us are captured by industry. That was a term that goes back to genetically modified organisms and led into versus, you know, those sorts of things historically. Another thing that I wanted to point out is that in last year in September of 2018, the FCC issued a ruling that led to this, which is that it took away local control from your municipalities in terms of this. And so, cities are fighting against 5g, but not because of health. It's an unlikely Alliance. They're doing it because of caps on how much they can charge for leasing. Oh, okay. I know that a third thing I want to mention that we can get onto the questions, daft attack over who's been lecturing a lot about 5g. She mentioned that back in 1984, when the sole industry wanted to take this technology that was originally developed by the military and move it into civilian use, they said to the American government, we want you to take the control of the health aspects of this out of the NIH and the EPA and put it into the Federal Communications Commission, which has one task and that is to a lot spectrum for broadcasters so that they don't interfere with each other, give them frequencies to broadcast that they have no medical personnel, and they said, Why are you giving this to us? We can't oversee this. Wow. But that was the whole point. So, they really don't have anybody who can. So, they're in charge of the health but they have absolutely no bearing and no, right. And in many cases, these lobbyists are asked by congressional aides to help write legislation because they say we don't know the technology the way you guys do. Can you help us? Right? There is more deficit. They're more lobbyists for the telecommunications industry in Washington, DC, roaming the halls of Congress than there are Congress people, because we're talking about a lot of money. Yeah, millions and billions of dollars, telecommunications industry. So, you can always follow the money trail well with these things. Well, the thing is, we all want this technology, everyone likes to have the convenience that wireless gives us but the problem as there's mega said that this technology is invisible, silent and odorless. So compared to cigarette smoke, you don't even know that it's there until you have either have symptoms, which not everyone does, even though there is so your harm, or you measure it with a meter that has sound on it.
Lisa Beres
Wow. And there have been zero safety study. No, no, no, no, no. By the industry. It's Oh, well.
Oram Miller
Industry actually did do some studying of radio frequencies, but they control the agenda. And that's a whole story relative to 5g. They've done 5g. No, there's no there haven't been studies on the technologies of 5g, but there have been studies, you know, thousands of studies on radio frequency,
Lisa Beres
Right? Yeah, yeah. But I meant 5g specifically, with this rollout being so aggressive, yet there's zero safety data provided by the industry?
Oram Miller
Oh, well, right.
Ron Beres
Let's look at segue because first question is, ultimately is what is 5g? And how does 5g differ from 4g?
Oram Miller
Okay, so it's important for people to know what 5g is, first of all, every decade or so, since the 1980s, we have a rollout of a generation of technology for the cell phones that we use. So, in the 80s, first generation was voice only second generation was in the 90s, with voice and text. Third generation 3g, as it's called, was in the 2000s. And that was voice text, and then data, accessing the web or email and web browsing, and then 4g, which were just rolling out of that decade, that was from 2010, or 2008, to about 2018. Last year. And that's 4g, and that included, faster and more robust.
Data Access, including streaming audio and streaming video. 5g is technically any technology that's coming out now in the coming decade, that will be 5g. So what everyone thinks, oh, are those people who have paid attention to us and started learning about it, what they think of and what they're what's been written about 5g, when they hear that term is signals that are in a part of the frequency spectrum that hasn't been used for cell coverage yet, until now, and that's above 20 gigahertz, okay? Now that for those frequencies have been used by the military for, for radar and for satellite TV, but not for cell coverage. But there's a lot of bandwidth up there. And it's called a millimeter band, because the wavelengths are very short, less than a quarter of an inch. And the you can put a lot of data over the air, but it doesn't go as far but there's a lot of data which can be downloaded or uploaded very fast. So that's the lore, but it doesn't go through buildings. You don't even need special paint or you know why shield or any of these paints. A normal building wall that's made out of wood or brick, or shingles will block the signal unless you beamforming so I'll get into that. Okay. Now there's another part of 5g that people don't know about, and that is the 5g that's going to be below six gigahertz. And that's the band that we call the low band that the industry calls it the low band from about 600 megahertz to 6000 megahertz, which is six gigahertz that's called the low band and mid band.
And mid bands about two gigahertz to six gigahertz. These are the frequencies that are in use now and happen with 3g and 4g. So, when you have a cell phone, now you're broadcasting in 800 900 1800 1900 megahertz that are in the low to mid band, the high band starts at 20 gigahertz and above, okay? Now, and they won't be doing so. So frequencies between six and 20, not for a while what's coming now in these small cell antennas that they want to add to the existing network of 300,000 4g antennas that we have now, on these macro cell sites that are about a mile and a half apart, that's what you're connecting to now for voice, texting and data, they want to add to that they're not taking those away, those will remain, they're going to drop in additional small cell antennas, which will be at lower power, but closer to homes. But it's not just going to be 5g equipment, above 20 gigahertz with a beam forming on those antennas, that those will be there. But in addition to that they're going to have right next to them on the same will actually right above them, usually a 4g LTE antenna. So, they're continuing with that technology. Why? Because the 4g antenna, locates the phone, instead of down to 50 feet, which is the best they can do with the macro towers are a mile and a half apart. With the with by dropping in small cell antennas with 4g transmitters on them every block in front of every two to 10 homes, in suburban neighborhoods and even more dense than that in urban areas, they will then be able to locate your phone down to three feet. And part of us you see is for the purpose of locating your phone so that when so they can extract data with the 5g equipment at very high speeds because of all the data that people give to their phones. And so that is going to be a revenue stream for the for industry for the cell carriers to sell that data to advertisers.
Lisa Beres
So, our Eucalyptus, metal, Eucalyptus, that's not being dropped in.
Oram Miller
Those are all right, those antennas that this letter is talking about will be small cell antennas.
Lisa Beres
56 feet small. Well, when I hear small, I think like a couple feet.
Oram Miller
Well, unless that's planned to be a macro tower, but how close are they going to be to each other?
Ron Beres
And it was unclear
Lisa Beres
Like every block. Oh, this is the only one we've been made aware of. And it's an intersection.
Oram Miller
Okay. All right. So, I think that what that is, is a 4g tower that that's a macro tower like we have, that's probably what that is. Well. Alright, but let's say what they're talking about a small cylinder
Oram Miller
So small cell antennas, remember, we'll have 5g and 4g equipment on there. So, the 4g transmitter will be always on at about 120 degrees wide, constantly bathing, the air in front of it and the homes in front of it with constant radio frequency signals. But we can measure those with our meters, you see because it's below six gigahertz. Now the 5g component in that this is something that people don't realize that when I say 5g, and I'm talking about now the part of it above 20 gigahertz, the beam form part that has to be being formed in order to get through walls, because of the wavelength being so short. And that's the one that's everyone is learning about in terms of the health and we'll get into that.
That is on demand. Every engineer that I've spoken to and I've been to trade shows where I've talked to engineers, and also their engineers, Professor Trevor Marshall and others who have helped me learn about this for the online course that I wrote, I was the lead author with a dozen other people inside and outside the building biology profession on 5g, which was posted in May of this year 2019 on the building biology institute.org website under courses. So, what Trevor Marshall and all these engineers said is that when the signal from the 5g antenna above 20 gigahertz, the beam form signal is only sent out when a device initiates the connection. Number one, number two, that signal is narrow it the beamforming. Some engineers told me two degrees, some said 15 degrees so I write two to 15 degrees because that's the maximum that I think whereas the 4g is 120 degrees wide and it's always on. So, there's always on 4g and on demand 5g so depends on how much traffic there is for the 5g, how much demand there is. All right. And now think about this from a standpoint of someone living in suburbs, the city is going to be different. If you're in urban areas, they'll be 5g signals everywhere at least saturated if you're electrically sensitive, you're not going to do well in the cities will they all be being formed since they are going to have buildings and anything above 20 gigahertz you know that the all signals that are in the 20 gigahertz and above range 20 420-825-2839 and even 60 gigahertz. These are the frequencies that have already been. Some of them have been allotted. Others are coming up for auction in November next year. Verizon has some options, AT&T has, T Mobile, they all have, Spectrum, whether they bought or they want to buy, anything that's transmitted up there is going to be on demand. And it's going to be narrow, but there'll be a lot of it in cities, those
Lisa Beres
Will be the most dangerous areas for 5g. Perfect. Yes.
Oram Miller
But don't forget 4g transmitters that we have. Now, I haven't mentioned this yet. They're going to be upgraded to 5g technology. So, what is that going to involve? Well, beamforming will be done down to two gigahertz. So, there's the whole mid band section from two to six gigahertz, that's 4g now will be b can be been formed, number one. Number two, there'll be modulation there will be a densification, there'll be much more of the signals more modulated and the modulated signals have a much worse health effect than the signals that are not modulating as much. And so, the way that the industry is describing it is when T Mobile who just bought the 600-megahertz band, okay. I mean, portions of that. And they're advertising that that's they're rolling out 5g now. And they have spectrum that's in the mid band for their 4g, you know, transmissions and also above 20 gigahertz. But in the 600-megahertz band, I asked the antenna manufacturers, I said, Well, what makes the 600-megahertz 5g I can't mean for him because it's below two gigahertz or 2000 megahertz. And they said, the modulation compacting of the signals more signals in the same airspace. So, what this is going to be is enhanced 4g, it'll be maybe a few hundred megabits per second, instead of 1000 megabits per second. That's what you're going to get with the beam form 5g above 20 gigahertz. It's like a one to two gigahertz, or mega gigabits per second, sorry. So, the enhanced 4g that's being called 5g will be souped up 4g. But it won't be as fast as the 5g in the bands above 20 gigahertz. Everyone has health impacts from this if you hold a cell phone to your heart to your head, even for two minutes ever, all the researchers who work on this say that there's DNA fragmentation does damage to the mitochondria, that they're all these effects on a cellular level 100% 100% damage to the cells
Lisa Beres
And the next national not to interrupt but the national toxicology program just completed their 10-year study $30 million and found for sure, clear evidence of cancer connection, and heart and DNA breakdown.
Oram Miller
So however, the same researchers say two thirds of the population can repair that damage at night.
So, this is the dilemma for me and my colleagues in the building biology profession and other EMF professionals around the world, that we have clients who say I want to be safe, I want a healthy home, I want you to help me with that. But I don't want to go too far. You know, those are code words to me, they say, but I want to keep my Wi Fi. And so, I know that I have to educate them about things that they don't know. And because of the concerted effort on the part of industry, in collaboration, unfortunately, to dark collaboration with regulatory agencies that they've captured, who don't tell us the truth, and media that doesn't tell us the truth because of the advertising. Alright, so that'll I think that's a great point. And I think one of the things that Ron and I hear all the time from clients is, oh, if it was that, if it was that dangerous, we'd hear, right? Because we hear that about chemicals in your home. And I'm sure you hear this all the time in terms of electromagnetic radiation. And the thing is, is people have to understand, if you if you do the digging, you'll find thousands of peer reviewed studies. But if you're listening to the nightly news, you won't, you won't.
So, Josh, del Sol and Sergey just collaborated on the 5g summit, which is now ongoing, and I'll be part of the post module presentation that's coming out in just a few weeks. And the thing is cc Doucet, who's an activist in Massachusetts, who has an interesting story about how she got in into this said that, that on the cursory look of this, you know, she heard that there was no evidence that there was any harm. That's what the industry and that's what physicists say, and engineers and industry. But when you when you do what she calls the deep dive, chances are that she used that word like three or four times. When you know, because she talked to some people in her City Council on her school board. She said when the school board member went did the deep dive and looked at the research and saw how compelling it is and how extensive it is. And they said, how come I don't know about it? So, the biggest problem that I have is that when I tell my clients about the health effects of these things, many don't understand why it is that they don't know. So, you alluded to that. But also, the problem is if they don't feel the symptoms, and half of my clients don't there are too many people who have symptoms who have electrical hypersensitivity by their own admission, and I would agree with them, but they're still using their cell phone.
Lisa Beres
Do you think they're addicted to this technology addicted to the convenience or just don't want to be bothered by making the change and doing what, what needs to be done?
Oram Miller
All of the above, I think that they, they like the convenience, and they don't necessarily feel the effects. It's hard to make a decision to be hardwired because it takes diligence. It takes commitment, especially spouses of people who are symptomatic. You know, they say, Well, how could this be?
Lisa Beres
Crazy, you must be crazy. Yeah, especially with mold, exposures and a lot of chemical sensitivities and things like that. That's very common, you know that one person's, a lot of times the woman experiencing it, because she's sensitive, she's sensitive, she has more body fat, unfortunately. And stores toxins in the tissues and men. And also, women tend to spend more time in the home. And so, if they're getting more exposure to the particular source than men, that's a problem as well.
Oram Miller
So, we have sensitivities, and the needs of people who are sensitive are not being taken into account. Now what electrically sensitive people need to know is that it's not true that everyone's going to end up like them, because they are deathly afraid of that, literally Tell me, I want you to convince my husband not to use a cell phone so much, but the thing is electrically sensitive, people need to understand that there are going to be people who are in the population who are exposed to this stuff and use these technologies who do not have symptoms, and then never will, on a cellular level. Yes, there is some harm, but they're not going to go on to develop Frank disease. And the problem is these people are more than half of the population. That's why we're having such a difficult time trying to get this change. But we've done it before with a specialist letting go and tobacco.
Ron Beres
They're not the canary in the coal mine that is in there, but they are being affected.
Lisa Beres
Do you think that people that are getting electro sensitivities earlier or have lowered immune system? Do you think it's an effect of chemical exposures and other toxic lifestyle? Or do you think it's just genetic?
Oram Miller
Someone's going to get it in some or all of the everything you just said? can be a reason for it. From what I understand prior exposure to chemicals or electrical, electromagnetic fields, there's a certain genetic propensity to this super oxidase dismutase, calcium voltage gated calcium channels, the work of Dr. Martin, Paul, and others are trying to figure out why is it that certain people are sensitive to these things? sensitive people comprise half of my clientele and client half, and the client, half of the clientele of our colleagues Balaji profession
Lisa Beres
And, Oram tell us for these clients that are sensitive? What are the symptoms that you see repeatedly in everyone so that people listening know, hey, maybe that's something I'm experiencing?
Oram Miller
The common symptoms that I hear from my clients, and I basically do EMF only now, I did the full scope of our work for the first half of my practice. But since moving to California, I've been focusing on EMF only. And what I hear primarily from people are any of the number of things in no particular order, headaches, numbness and tingling ringing in the ears, brain fog takes more higher doses of medications to get the same effect. So those are the things that I commonly hear from people,
Lisa Beres
Right. And I guess that's what we're dealing with the population is people get used to their symptoms, they get used to feeling bad, they get used to taking their medication, instead of actually looking at the source and saying, Hey, could this be my environment? Could this be Yes?
Oram Miller
Then people say to me, Well, how do I know it? And that I have electrical sensitivity? I have some of those symptoms from time to time. How do I know? And so, my answer is those people who know that they're electrically sensitive, figured out that when they remove themselves from that environment, or go somewhere else, they feel better, and then they come back, or when they turn certain things off. They read about him; they see there's a pattern. That's right. So, what people need to understand getting back to 5g is that 4g is here, and it's been affecting us in an adverse way. And really, we shouldn't, I'm not saying that it's safe to use these technologies for half the population, it's not a good thing. Because in the building biology profession, we say reduce use increased distance in favor hardwired connections whenever possible.
Lisa Beres
Can you repeat that again? Yeah, reduce use, increased distance, increased distance, and
Oram Miller
Favor hardware and a wired connection when you're out of the house. You don't have to be connected to people all the time. There are things you can do with your cell phone, not just put it in airplane mode, you can actually turn off Bluetooth, Wi Fi and cellular data when you're out. But don't put it in airplane mode, and all that's on anymore. And also, a location, the only thing that will remain is voice and text isn't would that be the same as airplane mode? No, there'll be the least amount of pinging the least amount of because every time a notification comes to your phone, every time the cell character company, through the local cell tower wants to do an update or notify you know, if you're running your texts and your emails and your WhatsApp and Snapchat and all that stuff through your phone. All the apps you have the more apps you have the more notifications the more downloads and more upgrades and so on every time there's something coming to your phone, like on Facebook, all that stuff where you're constantly like teenager or you know Millennials are constantly in constant like nonstop there's something called the electronic handshake and then Electronic handshake means that the tower sends out a signal saying I have a message for you, I have an update, I have a notification. And so, the cell phone sends back a signal you're getting that the saying I'm, I'm ready and then they sync up. And that that transmission is the is going into your body as well as going a mile away too.
Lisa Beres
Right? Okay, so you should turn off your, as a general rule of thumb, turn off your push notifications to Yes, every time you're getting a push notification on 20.
Oram Miller
But, what if you're millennial now you're out of the loop. Now you're not now. So, when we say electric, we start with what electrically sensitive people need. And then for people who are sort of in the middle there, they wonder how can I be healthier? I'll tell them this is what this is what we recommend you go hardwire because everything I just mentioned, almost everything you can do on hard wired Ethernet connected computers, and even iPhones and iPads, the Apple products in a home with a lightning to Ethernet Adapter that's grounded. Another thing that with grounded shielded Ethernet cable and the Ethernet grounding adapter kit, and that keeps it grounded, so you don't have electric fields. And then you can but that doesn't make it safe. Sure, you have to put it in airplane mode completely. But then you can get on the internet and do everything that I just mentioned, for most of these devices, including some phone calls. And then that gets into more detail.
Lisa Beres
So that's in our home. And I know there's so many tips and we're only scratching the surface today obviously at www.BuildingBiologyInstitute.org
Oram Miller
Yeah, and my site is www.CreateHealthyHomes.com
Lisa Beres
So, you can get more information on that. But going back to 5g and these small cell antennas that are being put up. So, a lot of listeners now are going oh my gosh randomly so that a letter good for them. But I haven't gotten a letter. Supposedly they're going up every two to 10 homes.
Oram Miller
That's the plan that's dropped and then on every residential street, every two to 10 homes now in in urban areas. They're going to have single poles a strand mounts where they put them up on utility poles, 4g and 5g transmitters, particularly 5g, they're going to have something called a magic box, which is a 5g device that will go in every couple of floors on apartment buildings and, and commercial buildings and stadiums, college campuses, parks, bus stops, men under manhole covers, they're literally going to try and saturate every squarish. Why because even though less than half of the users are in urban areas, but more than half of the traffic is in urban areas. That's where the goldmine is, that's where the money is for the cell companies, because that's where the users are. Okay? Where is the traffic, the data traffic? So that's where all the investment is going into. So, they can ricochet off buildings and geolocate?
Lisa Beres
Or tell listeners, how can they find out if a 5g antenna is going to be placed near their home?
Oram Miller
I honestly don't know the answer to that as well as other people do. Because I'm not an activist or advocate, my focus is on working with clients just for advice on how to find emfs and mitigate them recommending my clients. So that's my focus. So, but to answer that question, people should contact their city, whatever department is in charge of issuing the permits for those sorts of things. And that's supposed to be public knowledge.
Lisa Beres
And probably just assume, I mean, if there is going to be an antenna every two to 10 homes.
Oram Miller
Well, that's the plan, right? in suburban areas. Yeah.
Lisa Beres
So, you're so if you're in a suburban area, you should assume you're going to have one near you. So, you need to take the next steps, which we're going to get into in a minute, or I'm going to give us some great mitigation techniques.
Ron Beres
Perfect, but we do have a caller on the line it is Brett, and he's going to be asking a question for Oram Miller.
Caller, Brett
Ron and Lisa, thanks for taking my call. Yeah. Do you have a question about 5g and the towers? Now? Where are these towers located? There's every major city out there? How close or how far do I have to be from these towers to not get the, I guess, negative effects from them? Got my phone as well. And I see the 5g pop up. I mean, how much harm is doing the and what should I do about that?
Ron Beres
That’s a long question, Oram. Are you ready?
Oram Miller
Well, there's a couple parts to that. One is how close or how far is safe? And also, 5g on the phone?
Lisa Beres
Yeah. All right. All right, that already I haven't seen it on mine.
Oram Miller
This is complicated. So, you know, you get your cell phones through your cell carrier, right? I'll start with AT&T. AT&T is releasing what they call 5g LTE or 5g plus, that's actually modified 4g. Now they are putting out true 5g antennas in certain cities are about a dozen cities and even more now that they're putting them in and if you go to their if you go to the website of each one of these cell carriers, they already have maps showing where they have coverage. And like T Mobile has that for their 5g and they have the maps there for Los Angeles, Atlanta, Cleveland, New York, you know, and I looked at them and, and this there are a number of streets in downtown right around downtown LA and a little bit beyond that. Not every Street in Manhattan. It's pretty saturated. But In LA, it's here in there. And it's going to continue to grow. But it's mostly focused around downtown. But remember, that's t mobile's 600 Giga, a megahertz 5g, which is really 4g, and it will be informing. But it just means more densification more modulation of the signal, which is not healthy. But remember your 4g phone in your pocket? I mean, everyone's No, no. And here's the thing people say to me, or I'm so worried about that cell tower out the window. And that smart meter on my neighbor's house, and they're not paying attention to the phone in their pocket and attention to the Bluetooth. You know, their cordless, telephone base unit. It's always emitting, and on and on.
Caller, Brett
Okay, so we have another caller. Christine is on the line today. She has a question as well.
Caller, Christine
Hi, I'm calling today because I'm wondering if anyone has heard about the negative effects of 5g. I've heard some negative, like health facts for kids to have a faster connection.
Oram Miller
So as reminded us the Navy, the military has done two reviews of how many studies was at 5000? Did you guys hear her talk? 5000 studies, there's a lot I don't know, in the 70s. They released that. It's public knowledge. And so, when the regulatory agencies the FCC says there's no evidence of harm, they're not even acknowledging that the US government has released compendium of information showing how sailors are affected adversely, oh, electromagnetic field. Okay, in the 1970s. And there are many other studies, the bioinitiative working group
Lisa Beres
29 scientists from 10 countries 1500-page report with thousands, thousands of peer reviewed studies on dangers from wireless.
Oram Miller
Yes, mostly done outside the United States. Now, Deborah Davis's group, the environmental health trust, they're, they're a good resource to Dr. Martin Paul and his work with voltage gated calcium channels, Dr. JACK Cruz in his work, he's a neurologist, he's really sounding the alarm about 5g,
Ron Beres
all this information is so important. That's why we need the documentary more than ever. So, the building biology Institute is actually going to put together a documentary on this subject matter, which is so important. I know, we're just scratching the surface here, too. It's such a strong need for this material.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, it's going to be a feature length documentary. And unlike a lot of documentaries that you may have heard about 5g or other wireless issues, this was this is going to have real life solutions to real life problems. So, it's very practical hands on. And it's also going to give us solutions where we don't have to abandon our devices like some of your clients who say, Oh, you can hardwire just about everything. Yeah, sure. There's no reason to sacrifice This isn't about giving something up. This is about gaining something and gaining health and protecting yourself protecting your family, and ultimately, our planet, because we're talking about planetary damage.
Ron Beres
Oram, you have the ear of our callers. We got another caller.
Caller
I'm so happy you're having this show. You know, there's been a lot of talk about the 5g, and I'm not even sure what it's going to do for me.
Oram Miller
Okay, well, well, industry has been chomping at the bit to get this 5g out. And so, what they're promising is a faster download speeds, more real time, lower latencies for virtual reality. And of course, you need real time for autonomous cars. And who knows if that's ever going to really happen eventually, I'm sure but, but the point is, none of this has been tested. And there are faster ways of getting data into homes. And that's with hardwired connections, fiber to the premises, local area connections within the house like you guys have done here. And with your Ethernet cable.
Ron Beres
Which is so reliable.
Oram Miller
it's what's interesting is when I come down here to Orange County, and I work with and in Los Angeles with low voltage contractors who are responsible not for the electrical wiring, that's the electricians. These guys and women are responsible for putting in the network for controlling the lights for music everywhere for having TVs and internet and telephone coverage. And they tell me I'm on the same page as you I want, I put in miles of cable, Ethernet and coaxial cables and other cables not for health. They do it for speed, reliability, security and stability in the whole system. Other countries are way ahead of the United States in this regard. Japan and Korea have very fast download speeds right to the house. And so, the thing is we have cable companies and telephone companies that provide wired connections that are very fast right to the house but they're regulated by the public utilities Commission's in the state with sell companies are not regulated and they're putting in miles of fiber. Yeah, where you can send terabytes of file of information for pennies on the fiber optic up to the small cell antenna. And then the last mile, which is only 30 to 50 feet 100 feet is going to be spraying that wirelessly with 4g and 5g in front of homes and because they're wireless for that little last part called the last mile, quote unquote, they will not be regulated. They can charge whatever they want.
Lisa Beres
Whoo. It’s a lot to take in, Oram. Going back to the safety. You know, the hard wired is not only better for your health, but corporations, they don't use wireless.
Oram Miller
Oh, and I know how to use both actually, but most companies still prefer to be wired. Yeah. Because it's more reliable for the network. Absolutely. So, are more people where can people go for more information on you is its great healthy homes calm? Yes, creates healthy homes calm now for the building biology profession. Again, we have a 57-page technical online course. And they're available on the building biology website, which is www.buildingbiologyinstitute.org is also a free three-page summary.
Ron Beres
Speaking of summaries, this is a lot to take in a lot of information, it's very, you know can be can be confusing, right to someone who's listening in. So, can you give us a teaser? Maybe of what can someone do now to protect themselves from five G's or like a tip that.
Lisa Beres
Give us five tips, if you can.
Oram Miller
Sure. Well, first of all, get a meter. Yeah. And that will measure the part of 5g that's below six gigahertz, you have to understand and remember that 5g includes signals above 20 gigahertz, that everyone's hearing about being point signals that are dangerous, but then also from six gigahertz down to 600 megahertz. Okay, so that's the low to mid band. The other thing I just described is the high band. So, we have two areas of 5g. And, and, and the 4g transmitters are not going away. And they're going to be added to the small cell antennas that are going to be dropped in between the macro cell towers that are every mile and a half apart. And they want to put the cell industry wants to put they call it antenna just densification they call it a million-mile challenge, but it's actually they're looking at, they're thinking 13 million will be won't even be enough. Now Wow, drop in. And I don't know if that's worldwide, or just in North America. But anyway, drop those in, in every residential neighborhood, so that they can geolocate your phone down to three feet instead of 50 feet, which is what it is now, with 4g alone with the macro towers. And then the problem with that is you instead of having 800 to 1000 watts effective radiated power maximum on these macro cell towers a mile and a half apart, these small cell antennas for the 4g, which will be always on spring and out to your house 30 to 100 feet away will be 10 watts, I've seen a couple of hundred watts and some of these applications. And even though it's lower power by either, you know, 80% or even more than that, but it's still going to be closer. So, the power density will be higher. I have read my meter, my radio frequency meter, hundreds of thousands of micro meter squared from 4g antennas that are in front of homes, by the way, if anybody picks up any signals on their towers, on their RF meters that they own, from a new tower that that is now in front of people's homes. That wasn't there before you know, or maybe been there for a little while. But it and you know people say that the fight that's a 5g Tower. Yeah, I mean, the technician will say, yeah, I'm putting in 5g, but that's good. If they're picking up a signal that wasn't there before. That's not 5g above 20 gigahertz. Nobody has meters that that can measure there. Well, one or two people do.
Ron Beres
This is the obviously a major health issue. But people that say new towers are coming up new antennas are coming up all the time. Wouldn't that even decrease the property value of someone's home?
Oram Miller
No,
Lisa Beres
No? No seven percent. If it's in if it's if it's within a few feet, it would decrease the value of a home by seven percent.
Oram Miller
Okay. I'm not going to argue with that. What I'm being I'm being somewhat cynical here because, you know, there's so many people out there who think this is a great thing that I've got better coverage.
Ron Beres
So initially, they may not realize it, but later might be a problem.
Oram Miller
Well, if you look at the arc of history, I mean, we've all gone we've gone through as a civilization worldwide, tobacco was first then tobacco and leaded gasoline, genetically modified organisms if he wasn't DDT. And with all of them, there was an initial period where industry said there's no problem and they denied right to the end that there was ever an issue. And then the whistleblowers came out. And they found out that they were that the industry knew they were sitting on the knowledge. Because, in fact, I know people, I have clients who say, I've seen documents. I won't go into more detail than that.
Lisa Beres
There's innocent interpreting guilty mentality with a lot of this.
Oram Miller
Yeah. So, suffice it to say, industry is rolling ahead with this because they're of a mind that there is no evidence of any harm. That's their starting point. Okay. Engineers believe that that's what they're taught. And so, we say at least take into account the people who are sensitive to these devices. And we have to find common ground. We have to build bridges. We have to find ways of finding common solutions. That take into account these individuals, if the industry is not going to do it, and if regulatory agencies are not going to do it, people need to get educated and have building biologists and other EMF professionals assist them to get shielding in their homes. So, for instance, the shielding that we have now, when you measure and so you can reduce the signal coming in from outside.
Ron Beres
So, let’s say you're shielding your home from RF coming from outside Yes, very important thing to say. So, the graphite paint and you want to get into some of those things.
Oram Miller
Well, there's at least three different paints, there's a carbon-based graphite paint, why shield? There's Cooper code, which is copper based, and then there's air pure, which is nickel based. So, these are paints that can be used to layers, and then
Ron Beres
it starting to catch up isn’t it? Can someone just go hammers going to put this paint all over my house? I don't need a building biologist to come in and do that. Would that be a safe thing?
Oram Miller
Well, a lot of people do that. Because we're not everywhere. I don't have enough building budget; we need more we hope people will be inspired to
Lisa Beres
And I've seen this team for sale at Walmart. I mean, back in the day, you had to buy it through a specific you know, from Germany. Yeah. Rob Metzinger Yeah, and Safe Living Technologies thank you but running I saw on the Walmart website y-shield.
Oram Miller
You can buy Y-Shield from Amazon. And, and the y-shield company and safe living technologies, they all have, you know, very detailed instructions from the paint manufacturers on how to apply. So anyway, so that's one thing. And then there's a building foil, building grade foil that can be put between sheet rock and the studs. So there has to be done at new construction, or Yeah, or remodeling, or some people put it on their, over their sheetrock on the inside of the exterior wall. Safe living technologies and other vendors sell that, then you have a mesh, and then you have like to protect and other mesh. And you can just get copper or aluminum screen from the hardware store or fabric like Argent mesh, and daylight and
Lisa Beres
That you would put a canopy over your bed.
Oram Miller
Get a canopy. And what the four things that I just mentioned, the paints, the foil, the mesh, and fabric and also window filling, right, you have to do that to those things are good by enlarge for frequencies below six gigahertz. And we think because nobody's tested it, but we believe according to the curve, if you look at the curve, the lines for the paint, and the foil don't drop, they continue strong in terms of the amount of protection all the way to 18 gigahertz. And if you project out, we believe we anticipate that that the paint and the foil will continue to protect for the 20 gigahertz and above signals that will be coming in.
Ron Beres
Well, here's the great news. When you go to www.buildingbiologyinstitute.org you can find consultant, your area.
Lisa Beres
Go to www.building biologyinstitute.org.
Ron Beres
They're well versed in all these various topics and these products and what to do and how to remedy the situation.
Lisa Beres
When you list all those things. Are you saying do one of them or all of them? I mean, in a perfect world?
Oram Miller
Well, when I work with people, I mean, no two clients are ever alike. There are financial considerations, where are they on the spectrum of how sensitive they are? Who's living in the house, and then it's my job and the job of my colleagues to try and find common ground and find common solutions that work for everybody. So, as you said on the building budget website, which is building biology institute.org at the top, there is find an expert Yes. And on that drop-down menu, you click on environmental specialist, I believe it is environmental consultants. And then that takes you to a page that has a listing of all the building biologists who are members of the building biology Institute, you know, I'm in there and that's listed alphabetically by state and province, okay, and these are all building biology, environmental consultants, and building biology and excuse me, electromagnetic radiation specialists. And then there's another grouping of people who are building biology, new construction consultants who are architects and builders a relatively new program that's been going on for three years. Yeah.
Lisa Beres
Education and getting people to understand that is the
Ron Beres
Yeah, that's a great point. So, like right now people probably thinking like wow, I do want to fix things but I'm lucky I'm not retiring or moving somewhere out of the state. Is there any place that I can go to any area where I can be safe from 5g not have to worry about this?
Oram Miller
Ah, okay, safer, safer, safer, because again, for every place has 4g now and of course, we're talking about the drones and the satellites. But everyone needs to understand that because I done some research on this couple years ago, the highest percent highest concentration of radio frequencies will be under the under the moving drone and or balloon or satellite in low Earth orbit. Okay. And so, the it'll be this path, and it drops off on other side of that. And it's really this again.
Ron Beres
Alright, there's someone's delivering a package via a drone to my house.
Oram Miller
Oh, no, no, no. Okay, so these are drones that are being lost or being launched as we speak. I mean, companies are putting satellite low satellites in low Earth orbit. If you're at 22,000 miles up, you're in geostationary orbit, you don't move relative to the earth underneath you. So, we're talking about satellites that are like 60,000 feet. That's where Google loon balloons were going to be. And we're not sure whether that's still going to manifest or not, but the balloons are there above whether they can move them around with little propellers. And then there's drones. And then there's low Earth satellites, they're all on about the same strata up there about 12 miles and a little bit higher up. So, they're above weather, so they're not affected by the winds. They're twice as high as jet aircraft flying, which is five miles up or 16 30,000 feet, we're talking 60,000 feet, which I think is 12 miles up, right. So they're going to do swaths, and they're going to cover the earth, but the biggest concentration is right below and the maximum that Trevor Marshall and Alistair Phillips estimated was about one micro watt per meter squared maximum underneath this thing is as it travels, and it drops off laterally from there, okay, and it's only when it passes over. So, it's not like constantly beaming every square inch with high radio frequency levels. Yeah, this is the thing that people need to understand the thing that is that produces more RF into your body more radio frequencies are the cell phone in your pocket
Lisa Beres
Alright, so that's controllable. Guys, I mean, are you listening, listening? At home?
Oram Miller
By factors of 10s of thousands. Yeah. above what everyone's fearing is coming in from outside.
Ron Beres
Okay, well, then I do have a question. So, is there a particular place in North America that is just safer? You would suspect even though we have never? Yeah, what would be like a safe patch? For me?
Lisa Beres
Ron’s planning our next vacation.
Oram Miller
What we understand is that and what industry says themselves is that the high band, the millimeter band frequencies above 20 gigahertz, that's 5g will be more concentrated in urban areas and in suburban areas, not in rural areas. For a long time to come.
Ron Beres
It's just no? If you had to pick a state right now in your head? Rural areas. Okay, so world, what do you envision when you say rural?
Oram Miller
I'm not? No, no, any place any place that you leave Texas, it's a way for people to buy from people because think of it from the standpoint of the companies, they want return on their investment. Yep. And these things cost money, even small cell antennas cost money to put up in terms of your infrastructure, your hardware costs, and then they cost money for leasing. Yeah, that's you have to pay somebody.
Lisa Beres
So, Oram, do you think is this 5g rollout, to help people get better and faster service? Or is this all about selling data?
Oram Miller
So, they're going to be competing with the fixed companies with fixed connections over cable and telephone, all the way into the house, because they're already regulated? I'm talking about, you know, Cox, Comcast spectrum for cable. And then for telephone, it's like frontier now the old Verizon and AT&T. And so, they offer telephone, internet and television, into the house, but there's a cap on how much they can charge. The cell companies want to compete with them for what's called under fixed wireless, not mobile, what there's mobile wireless, and there's fixed wireless, mobile, wireless is putting 5g on your phone, which by the way, the 5g antenna doesn't work well, when you start moving. It only works if you're still. And if you're home. What are you going to be connected to? What is the guy next door? What's he going to be connected to first with his phone now for the last 10 years, with the hybrid phones that they have? Wi Fi? That's where he's going to get his data and all this 5g stuff by the way the data not voice and text. So, he's going to connect first and foremost, to the thing that provides the strongest fastest signal. Well, that's going to be his Wi Fi network in his house. So, if there's an in this there is a 4g Tower a mile down the street. Well, his friend who comes to visit who doesn't have the password for his Wi Fi network, his friend takes out his phone and wants to look at data and he's going to go to the 4g Tower a mile away right and he may have sprint and your neighbor has T-Mobile.
Lisa Beres
Oram, give us give us one last thing before we wrap up. What is the building biology profession recommend? And give us three tips right now your three best tips what people can do right now to improve their situation whether it's 4g 5g,
Oram Miller
okay, well become educated education
Lisa Beres
and there's so many free resources on the building biology Institute website. Yes, yes. www.buildingbiologyinstitute.org
Oram Miller
And I have my own website createhealthyhomes.com but also when it comes to wireless devices the three things that that I don't think we're the ones who I don't know who came up with this, we're not the only one to say this, but they are reduce use increased distance and favor hard wired connections whenever and wherever.
Lisa Beres
You guys, thank you. Thank you so great and we only scratched the surface. There's so much more you can learn.
Ron Beres
there really is at building biology institute.org
Lisa Beres
Or, Oram’s website at createhealthyhomes.com and thanks guys for tuning in.
Narrator
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