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How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the Healthy Home Hacks podcast where we firmly believe in joining optimal health shouldn't be a luxury. Healthy Home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts. listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy, you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, building biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados, Ron and Lisa Beres.
Lisa Beres 00:50
This episode of healthy home Hacks is brought to you by Boiron - world leader in homeopathic medicines is stress overload causing you some sleepless nights do you want to rest easier by supporting your body with a better way to feel better? For 90 years Boiron has been dedicated to providing your family with the purest medicines made from the Earth's best resources. Born sleep calm for adults and kids are melatonin free sleep aids with no next day grogginess. The meltaway. tablets for adults and individual liquid doses for kids are non-habit forming and have no drug interactions, from stress to sleep, pain relief, allergies and more. Boiron get you and your family covered with affordable homeopathic remedies that are easy to find online and unnatural product stores nationwide. Help your body the natural way with gentle worry-free formulas for even the littlest ones in your family. Visit boiron.com That's boiren.com to find the nearest retailer or by direct using code RL20OFF that's RL20. Off to save 20% off your entire purchase.
Ron Beres 02:01
Welcome to the second episode of Healthy Home Hacks Season Four with our new streamlined format you spoke and we listened. So, while we both loved talking, it turns out you prefer the 30-minute format. So today we'll try to keep the long witness to a minimum.
Lisa Beres 02:20
One of the questions we get asked the most is how do I test my home for mold affordably. People come to us after being quoted thousands of dollars for professional inspection. But most people don't want to start throwing money in the air, especially if they're not 100% sure if they even have mold. But this leads us to the next concern which is how do you know if a DIY mold kit is reliable, accurate and going to give you results from a certified lab.
Ron Beres 02:47
Our guest today is going to cut through the mold mist and help you protect yourself and your loved ones or potential toxic exposure to mold in your home without breaking the bank. In fact, with this home test kits, you receive a report that includes the type of molds detected and in what quantity as well as a practical and easily understood interpretation of the lab results on a matter of a few days. Your report will include the types of mold detected what quantity as well as the practical and easily understood interpretations of the lab results all with no beakers or goggles needed. The cost of these kits includes certified lab analysis, and all shipping costs.
Lisa Beres 03:27
The realization that his moldy childhood home was the underlying cause of his extreme allergies and asthma led him to the healthy home business in 2002. Leaving behind a successful career on Wall Street Jason Earl is a man on a moldy mission. An adoring father of two boys in diapers and incurable entrepreneur and indoor air quality crusader. Jason is the founder and CEO of the Mold Inspection Company 1-800-GOT-MOLD? and the creator of the got mold test kits.
Ron Beres 03:59
Over the last two decades, Jason has personally performed countless sick building investigations, solving many medical mysteries along the way while helping 1000s of families recover their health and enjoy peace of mind. Jason has been featured or appeared on Good Morning America, Extreme Makeover Home Edition, the Dr. Oz Show entrepreneur wired and more welcome to the show, Jason.
Lisa Beres 04:24
Jason Earle 04:26
Thank you quite an introduction. Sometimes I forget. That's me.
Ron Beres 04:31
Very good. We're excited to have you, Jason. It's so good to be here.
Lisa Beres 04:33
Yeah, we're thrilled to have you with us today. Let's dive right in.
Ron Beres 04:36
Jason working with mold isn't exactly a well-worn career path. So Why and how did you end up doing what you do?
Jason Earle 04:45
Well, as you said, Ron, it is not exactly an academic track in university. And I think in most cases, the people who are doing great work in this space, have a personal experience, something that they feel that they've learned from their experience and that they want to pay it forward. At least that's my experience with the people that I hold in the highest esteem in this industry. And so, there's no exception here with me. When I was about four years old, I suddenly lost a lot of weight in a three-week period. And I was having difficulty breathing. So, my parents took me to the pediatrician, and they said, you should take him to the hospital. So, they took me to Children's Hospital Philadelphia, and which is a renowned respiratory clinic, and their initial diagnosis based upon my family history and the symptoms that I was presenting with cystic fibrosis. Oh, wow. Yeah. And there's a death sentence back then.
Lisa Beres 05:32
That's crazy. At that will three, I was four, four.
Jason Earle 05:36
And it was particularly troubling to my father, who had lost four of his cousins before the age of 14. So, and I was their only child. Oh, my goodness. So, they spent the next six weeks crying and trying to console each other while they waited for the second opinion. And fortunately, and evidenced by the fact that I stand here at 46 years old. I was not actually suffering from cystic fibrosis, but rather I had asthma compounded by pneumonia. Oh, and when they tested me for allergies, which was one of my formative memories, actually, they put him in that pep who's like a straitjacket for toddlers.
Lisa Beres 06:08
Oh, God, that doesn't sound good.
Jason Earle 06:12
I grew grid on your back and then they do these antigen skin tests.
Lisa Beres 06:15
Okay. Yeah, I've had that done, but not with the straight jacket. Yeah,
Jason Earle 06:18
yeah. I think it's harder to restrain a four year Yeah, so my dad said I look like a ladybug my back just swollen red with dots all over it. So, they tested me for I forget what the number was, but I tested positive for every single allergen that they expose me to.
Lisa Beres 06:34
So, we're talking environmental allergens, not just molds we're talking about like pollen.
Jason Earle 06:40
Wheat, corn eggs, dogs, cats, etc. So, my clothing was constantly itchy. Oh, my childhood. And I grew up on a small nonworking farm where I was surrounded by all those things, you know, grass, wheat, corn stalks. Soybeans, were soybean fields, as far as you could see corn fields all around. And we had a lot of animals we had a lot of we had a sort of a rescue Menagerie. Hmm. Nice. My dad used to answer the phone, Earl's emporium and petting zoo. Oh,
Lisa Beres 07:08
sounds like a place we don't run. We love animals. Yeah,
Jason Earle 07:12
it was a great way to grow up, honestly. And I spent most of my time outdoors because of that, and not knowing it just intuitively. But I spent that that was also the way we were back then, you know, our generation, play,
Lisa Beres 07:22
Stop complaining that you don't have something to do. They'll get creative and make a game up. Yeah, that's right, five industries,
Jason Earle 07:27
And we ate a lot of dirt. And all those things should have been good for me. But what was going on there? Well, fast forward, my folks put up when I was about 12, which was a blessing for everybody. And when I moved out of that house, all my symptoms went away. It wasn't immediate. In fact, that was relatively gradual. So it wasn't as if somebody said, Oh, my gosh, you know, they didn't connect the dots right away. But my grandfather had grown out of his asthma. And so, there was some commentary around that, that it was just a, you know, one of those adolescent things, but in retrospect, it's very clear to me, we had a very damp basement. I ran through and it rained. You know, it was always it was always that distinct, characteristic musty odor. Yeah. And it would create a hell of a heaviness. I'd go down there to play. And I remember feeling lethargic, my energy was compromised from that. And I remember wheezing a lot more. Being down there, but not connecting the dots, even awareness around mold was nonexistent back then. I mean,
Lisa Beres 08:20
yeah, this conversation, right. It wasn't really talked about.
Jason Earle 08:24
Not at all. Yeah, mold, mold, wipe it off, you know?
Lisa Beres 08:28
It's on fruit. Oh, well, no big deal. You know? Yeah, exactly.
Jason Earle 08:30
You know, fast forward, I ended up through a series of happy and unhappy accidents ended up on Wall Street at a very young age. And I did that for nine years and had a nice career. And then I, one day got disenchanted. I wanted to do something meaningful with my life. So, I went on walkabout. And while I was away, I was in Hawaii, and I was reading a lot of local newspapers, I had a lot of time on my hands. There are a number of stories about a huge mold problem that had been discovered in Hilton Kalia tower, which is the flagship property in Oahu, and the building had been shut down for a while when I got there. And there's one particular article that jumped out it was about one of the employees, and he had developed adult onset asthma, which is something I had never heard of before. And he was suddenly sensitive to all these foods and environmental allergens that he had never had a problem with. And it was like a light bulb went on. Right? For me. It was just like, wow, that sounds just like me kind of in reverse, you know? Yeah. And so, I took that to the internet, which is still didn't have a whole lot about mold and health. You know, this is 2002. 2001- 2002. And I started looking around, and I just realized that it was literally in that moment. You know, sometimes people get sort of a white light experience, or they just immediately know what they're supposed to do. And aha moment. For me that was it. I just became fascinated, not with mold, per se, but it is fascinating. I mean, it's you for all the fear around mold. It's actually quite beautiful. And
Lisa Beres 09:43
You are the first Jason that we've done some shows on mold, and I've never heard anyone saying that.
Jason Earle 09:48
Well, you have to recognize it without that we would be a wash and deadstock and so it serves a very important function. And in fact, some molds are for medicine, of course with penicillin, and you know, lots of molds and yeasts and things are used for food and so you know, to throw it all into one bucket is a disservice. We actually need this stuff and we need some a certain amount of in our home to diversity in your home. You don't want to sterile home.
Lisa Beres 10:08
No, I tell that to people all the time. They're like, Oh, you know, you're in the healthy home business. You want people to like have your home spic and span. And I'm like, no, no, I want your home to have no chemicals. That's right. I want your home to breathe and to be healthy.
Ron Beres 10:19
And yeah, I love your perspective on mold and how the positive aspects of that it's the first time I've ever heard someone say that that's inspiring. Well, Jason mold is everywhere, right? Basically, even on Wall Street. So, if all houses have mold in them, what's the difference between having mold and having a mold problem?
Jason Earle 10:35
Well, as he said, mold is a natural part of the environment, mold, if it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. It's breaking down leaves and twigs and dead plant material in your yard. But it was doing that in your house not so good. And the reality is that we build buildings out of paper m�ch�, even in the domestic Three Little Pigs didn't build his house out of paper. Yeah, but the bigger problem is that we also around, you know, if you rewind, first of all, we used to have artisans, building homes, and homes naturally breathe, right, we didn't have insulation in the walls, which is problematic. But that lack of insulation allowed for something called drying potential, which means that water gets in the wall, and it also can dry. And so now we fill our walls full of fluffy stuff that gets wet stays wet. We also wrap our buildings in vapor barriers, which oftentimes are improperly installed, which reduces drying potentially even further. And of course, because of the lack of artisanal or lack of training and lack of skill, and we just don't have the skilled labor that we used to a lot of windows are improperly installed. Flashing is often forgotten. So, building defects are much more rampant, you know, doesn't matter how much a house cost, the reality is that most houses are built improperly. In fact, I see more with high end homes that have all the unique valleys and you know, the fancy, if it's beautiful on the outside, oftentimes they're hiding inadvertently, often, you know, real problems. So, you know, so that, you know, around the 60s and 70s, as we were starting to worry about energy, you know, we started closing these buildings up even tighter to keep them comfortable. And so, what happens is we build out of mold, food, water gets in can't get out. That's all a mold problem is a moisture problem. So, let's just get that clear. Mold is a moisture problem. That's it. That's the problem. It's not the mold. Mold is the symptom. And so, you'd be building buildings that have mold friendly materials, and then when it starts to grow, because of these moisture conditions, the contaminants the molds produce and it's a factory of contaminants. Mold produces a variety of different things. mycotoxins are just part of the story. That musty odor is a potpourri of very potent chemicals, alcohols, ketones, aldehyde, some benzene, which is a class one carcinogen, can be found emanating from actively growing mold colonies. So literally, it almost looks like an industrial factory. If you look at those chemicals, it with the GC Mass Spectrometer, so these things build up in our indoor environment. So normally, the wind would blow and those things would just simply dissipate. Right? They'd be diluted and they blow through here we live in buildings. And then we also add so tightly sealed, they totally sealed. Yeah. And we also add that by the way to, you know, all the manmade VOCs that are coming off of all of our furniture from the big box stores and stuff we're getting from China.
Lisa Beres 13:00
And upholstery. Yeah, fair brands, flooring, cabinetry, furniture,
Jason Earle 13:09
Yeah, boom, boom, boom,
Lisa Beres 13:10
Then you have a toxic, you literally have a toxic brewery at some point. If you're not cognizant of this, and you're kind of just swarming in this environment, you know, I don't wear these things, the detrimental health effects that they can have.
Jason Earle 13:22
Yep. And then we also don't leave the house, right, we leave the house now. And we go from our house, to our car to our train to a plane, you know, we robbed on who wrote a wonderful book called never home alone, which I highly recommend to everybody. And we'll talk more about the diversity by the way, but the fact that we need microbes in our house, the higher level of microbes in your house is directly correlated to a lower asthma and allergy split are not. Well, yeah, the higher diversity equals a lower incidence of asthma and allergy. So, we need that stuff.
Lisa Beres 13:50
Like we need to be exposed. Right? We need to make sure that our immunity That's right, so Jason, how does someone listening; they suspect they have a mold problem. What does he or she look for what's a good place to start? There? Maybe they're smelling a musty they're suspecting they don't really know.
Jason Earle 14:05
I always say if you see it, smell it or feel it. If you see something smell something or feel something do something. So, if you see it that would be obviously anything that would be indicative of a moisture problem. So peeling paint blistering paint trend that pulls away by the way they call it trim, baseboard trim, I call it molding for reason. molding, all right, so that way traps moisture behind the bottom of the wall assembly. So, if you're seeing any sort of movement like that, where materials are moving in consistently, that's a red flag if obviously, any standing water or condensation, you see a window that's got that's a big red flag.
Lisa Beres 14:37
I think that's important listeners because a lot of people go but I don't see mold. Doesn't matter if you see the moisture. The mold could be non-visible to your eye. It could be under the substrate of the wall or what have you. So that's right your nose does now and like you talked about the musty smell like really paying attention to that and not kind of just shutting that musty smell.
Ron Beres 14:57
I swear Lisa as most women have a better sense of smell when it comes to like something bad. Like, I'll find out like 10 minutes later, and she'll be like, Oh my god.
Jason Earle 15:07
By the way, it's not just humans, female humans who have a better sense of smell, we use molded dogs for 12 years, dogs and only used females. Because, you know, this is a survival trait. Women in general, female dogs as well, you have to be able to smell what's going on with the babies. If the smelly, dirty diaper from across the room sickness, these kinds of things are part of why women have superpowers, right? But it's also why they can be a little bit difficult when it comes to these things, because they're picking up things that we're busy ignoring. So, this is why you know, there's a balance with all this stuff.
Lisa Beres 15:37
Mold sniffing dogs. We've done it shows about mold and that was the first I've never heard that. Do you use that in your inspection company?
Jason Earle 15:44
My last dog who was my first one actually died about six years ago. And it was like losing a child and I just couldn't go back to do it again. So actually, that was when I decided to really dedicate my efforts towards developing the gumball test kit.
Lisa Beres 15:57
I love it.
Ron Beres 15:58
I'm not canine but I'm nine.
Lisa Beres 16:02
These dogs between the truffle pigs. They're pretty amazing.
Jason Earle 16:07
It was truly the best but because they can find the source of the musty smell. See, this is the key right? So, the end. So, what happens is you get two different kinds of mold problems. By the way, you've got mold that's visible or on surfaces that are visible, right, which is caused by moisture, the you know high humidity or maybe a dental wet surface. The more insidious stuff is what they call a hidden mold, which is kind of a misnomer is more like sequestered. That's the stuff that's in a wall that the spores won't come through. Because sports can't jump through walls. They're physical matter, right. They're like little seeds, but the musty smell can come through. And mycotoxins can also not come through contrary to popular opinion. So, you can have the quote unquote toxic mold in a wall and you're not being exposed to the mycotoxins. I hate to tell people this, but you're not good, though. Yeah, it's good. It's good. But you can still get sick from that. And people do.
Lisa Beres 16:53
Because they try to handle themselves, right.
Jason Earle 16:55
They try not to, but the musty odor is directly correlated with a number of illnesses, in fact, that emerging research is leaning towards the idea that the musty smell is the leading cause of mold related illness amongst all of the different things people think about mycotoxins some molds produce, mycotoxins and even those only produce them some time, whereas all molds when growing produce the musty smell. So, people tend to want to find the toxic mold or the nontoxic and save it as if that would determine whether or not they're going to do something exact. And the reality is that there's no such thing as an acceptable amount of mold growth of any significance in your building.
Lisa Beres 17:29
Right. I think people are obsessed with black stocky, bad dress, but they call it black. Right? You know, they are kind of, that's all they care about is the black is black. And as we know, there's a lot of black molds, not just the toxic saggy mattress.
Ron Beres 17:41
So, Jason, what's the safe amount of mold to have present in one�s home.
Jason Earle 17:44
You know, that's like saying, what's the safe number of peanuts in your house. Because really, it's an individual sensitivity kind of thing, I can eat a jar of peanut butter a weekend. But you know, there are some people if I breathe on them after that, they'll end up in anaphylaxis. And so, it's not dissimilar. This is a very personal issue. It's an individual sensitivity kind of thing. Generally speaking, however, I will say this, if you're chronically exposed, you can develop the sensitivities. And you see this a lot. And that's where the adult onset asthma comes in. Right? Like that gentleman who I read about back in Hawaii. So that is a very, very serious thing. And by the way, that's hard to undo. Most people once you have that you don't get back. So, you really want to be careful if you smell that's why it goes back to if you see it, smell it or feel it you do something because you can alter your immune system and you can become hypersensitive to it. It takes a lot of there's some interesting neurofeedback and other things that people do to deal with that. But generally speaking, once you've been to that, you're there.
Lisa Beres 18:36
Yeah, we had a homeopathic doctor we have on the show, and she treats mold in the body part mold that's present in the body with homeopathic remedies, and she's had good success. Yeah, that's scary. Learn more about that. Oh, okay. I'll send you the in fact, I'll put it in the show notes to the episode for it. Absolutely. Yeah. So, Jason, are there current laws or regulations when it comes to mold?
Jason Earle 18:56
Yes, there are, but they're largely insufficient. There are some states where I mean, first of all, there's no law that says you can't have mold.
Lisa Beres 19:05
We're going to find you.
Jason Earle 19:07
There are some places where there are regulations around how it should be handled, like the state of Texas was the first to enact that. And in those places where there's legislation that's functional, there's a clear divide between mold inspection and mold remediation companies, which is a very good thing, and I highly recommend that anybody is going to hire a professional don't hire any first of all, don't do a free inspection. That's a sales call. Second of all, don't hire someone who also does the remediation.
Lisa Beres 19:29
Yeah, you're going to find mold, you're going to find a mold.
Jason Earle 19:33
Don't ever ask a barber if you need a haircut, right. And so, the thing about a lot of people skip over and inspection which is a big mistake, because good inspector will actually reduce the size of the remediation to the smallest possible amount but remediation contractor will want to expand it to the largest possible amount. So, if you think you're going to save money and not get an inspection, trust me, you'll pay oftentimes, oftentimes a multiple of what you thought,
Lisa Beres 19:58
and let's be honest, Jason like people If they see a spot and they try to fix it themselves without having an inspection, they don't know what they don't see what they don't see can hurt them. So how would they know that unless they had a professional that can come in there? And?
Jason Earle 20:11
Yes, right. So, the mold regulations are insufficient. There are more importantly, there's an industry standard, it's called the IICRC s 520. Now, the problem with the s 520, is that you can't find out as a consumer, what's in it, Google it, look for it all you want, you can buy it online, even if you want to buy the book. And that's the only way you can get to it. But you have to buy it, download it with a special reader that won't allow you to copy or print because the Industry Association, who is the keeper of the keys is very concerned about the copyrights. And so oftentimes, you will be told to hire an IICRC certified firm, very good advice. But more importantly, you should make sure that the foreman is IICRC certified, because you can have the firm certified and they'll send people that are unqualified happens all the time, all the time. And so also, we're working on a consumer version of that document, by the way for mass distribution with a wonderful man whose grandfather and industry named Carl Grimes, and he and I are spearheading this. And the idea behind that is to help you know sort of like separate the wheat from the chaff. A lot of contractors want to use chemicals that's not advocated in the IICRC s 521. A fog that is not advocated.
Lisa Beres 21:17
But no one can see that document, you cannot see it. A lot of people don't know that you can't do those things. We're not supposed to do those treatments.
Jason Earle 21:25
And a lot of contractors hide in that opacity. And they say they miss referenced the standard and say that this is part of the protocol. And it's not, you know, mold remediation is controlled demolition under Special Environmental controls to prevent contamination and to protect the occupants. And then I find cleaning, you don't need chemicals, you don't need to kill mold, which is, you know, kind of a counterintuitive thing. And if you start looking at all the shelves and Home Depot and Lowe's, you'll see lots and lots of products that are designed for that. But the truth of the matter is, it is not part of the deal.
Ron Beres 21:55
Jason, that was my trick question. Yes. took that away from me. I was going to ask you what's the best way to kill mold? But you already answered it.
Lisa Beres 22:01
Don't kill it. You remove it, right? It's right.
Jason Earle 22:03
That's right. Yeah, I used to joke around that anti-dihydrogen monoxide is the only chemical that's used for killing mold. And if you're anti-dihydrogen, monoxide is anti h2o. So, dryness, right is the only thing but it's not enough to just dry it out. You also have to remove it physically remove it using HEPA filter, vacuum cleaners, damp wipes. And this why no bleach. Why?
Lisa Beres 22:27
Why, because it's a respiratory irritant, we don't want it in our house period, let alone dousing your mold with it.
Jason Earle 22:32
That's right. And it's also 97% water, and so 3% sodium hypochlorite. And so, the sodium hypochlorite evaporates, which adds VOCs to the house, it is bleached the surface. So, you get this false sense that you've done something but you've left dead mold behind. And yes, you can render spores in Earth such a way that they won't reproduce, but you can't get rid of the other spores that will land on the surface, or the ones that you didn't get to. And mold loves to eat dead mold. So, you bleach the surface. So, you have this false sense that you've done something you've left behind, what if the sodium hypochlorite evaporates? What have you left behind? Water. So, you just have a water problem, congratulations. And then you've also left behind mold food, which is dead mold, not to mention on the substrate that was already supporting mold growth, and there's fifi fragments, which are the roots of mold growth, they're there waiting to just come back. So, bleach, that's the best way to not kill it. That's the best way to kill mold. But it's also it's not the best way to do anything really in a building. Because what you actually do is set for something also called competitive release. And so, there's additional, you'll actually amplify the mold problem by doing that. Oh, wow.
Lisa Beres 23:30
Okay, so we have a listener who says she is pretty sure she has a mold problem. What did she do first? And then what's the next step?
Jason Earle 23:38
Well, the first thing is, you want to identify the extent of the problem, and you want to figure out what the source of the moisture is, right? So, figuring out where the moisture is coming from is first and foremost, because you want to first stop that no matter what that is. So, whether it's an interior problem, or an exterior problem, or combination thereof, and then you want to figure out what the extent of the problem is, because without that, you won't be able to know what the remediation subsidy. So generally speaking, we recommend that people contact, get a professional involved, but that can be budget busting. It's also very hard to find a qualified person that you can trust lots of them, like I said, before conflicted, they've, you know, they'll get their hands into cookie jars. And so that that can be a real problem. But you know, one of the things that's why we created the GOP Mold Test Kit. And so, what we put together was a product that essentially allows you to take the same kinds of samples that professionals use, but without having to deal with any of those conflicts of interest. You can sample up to three rooms, using aerosol cassettes, which was called spore traps. And so, you can find what's in the ambient air. The other thing is that you want to make sure that you've gotten, you know, if you're having serious symptoms, you may consider relocating temporarily while you're dealing with this because lots of people will just sort of hunker down and say, oh, and act as if it's going to go away on its own and it won't. But the most important thing about all this is that a mold problem is a moisture problem. And if you have a moisture problem that can be dealt with quickly. and usually cheaply or for free, as long as you get to it within 24 to 48 hours, the industry standard for the s 500, which is the water damage, part of it says you got 24 to 48 hours to get things dry, or it's highly likely to become a mold for 72 hours, you're supposed to treat everything that's porous, that was affected by the water as if it's moldy, whether it's got visible mold or not. And so, once you get past those three days, then you end up with a mold issue. And that's a different standard. And what's interesting is that the s500 deal, you know, that's usually an insurance claim kind of a thing. And you can get that paid almost on to an unlimited degree. Soon as you cross that threshold, insurance will cap you at five or $10,000, if they covered at all the end your costs go through the roof. So, its extremely important people think about mold issues in days, weeks and months. So, I had a problem for a long time, you need to think about this stuff in terms of hours and days.
Lisa Beres 25:50
Wow, that's, yeah, we're talking about critical, you know, toxins and allergens and all of this. So, speaking of toxicity, we have one quick question. So you have both you offer both services, the hire the professional or do it yourself, would you say like, I know, the EPA says hire professional if it's more than 10 square feet, the space of the mold, if you can see that. But would you say like it's always a good rule to hire professional unless you're on a budget?
Jason Earle 26:16
Well, so 10 square feet is kind of a joke, because if you see 10 square feet on a wall, that's like the tip, proverbial tip of an iceberg, right? Mold will, generally speaking, really proliferate behind that wall. So, you cut that open, now you've released, you've potentially opened up the can of worms. So, if I, if I see one square foot of mold, and I train people on how to do this, I'm not doing that myself.
Lisa Beres 26:37
Yeah, no, I, yeah,
Jason Earle 26:39
I'm too humbled by this. Yeah. And too respectful of it. You know, a few square inches are a red flag, you know, 10 square feet, that's a three by three foot by three foot, like area. That's a lot of mold.
Lisa Beres 26:52
Like, if you let it get that far out of control, like, you know,
Ron Beres 26:56
That's refreshing response, that's fine, because I've always thought that to like, are you kidding me?
Lisa Beres 27:00
10 square feet is huge.
Jason Earle 27:01
That's a lot of mold. I mean, by the way, they also talked about the same guidelines that you should only use containment at certain levels. And I don't believe that's true. In fact, the standard clearly says that you should use content anytime you're going to cut a wall, and you're going to remove mold from an area where there's a known problem. You use containment, they use containment, negative air pressure, because this stuff is designed to break free and become airborne. Imagine billions of dandelions, those little white ball at a microscopic level, it's designed to break free and proliferate right? So now you need to be very, very cautious. I always suggest that if, if it's beyond your comfort zone and you are not truly up to speed on stuff, a professional is your best friend, a qualified professional is your best friend. And again, they'll save you money on remediation if they're doing a good job. You know, they will reduce it to the small because they're paid for their advice. They're not paid for per square foot.
Ron Beres 27:49
Great point. Great point. So, Jason rapid fire we got two more questions. We hear a lot about black mold and mycotoxins. You know, this seems scary to most people. Can you elaborate on these? Remember rapid fire Jason?
Jason Earle 28:00
Yeah. Listen, there's no doubt about it that mycotoxins are right to health in general, animals, plants even believe it or not. And of course, you know, humans. So, you want to make sure that you're not creating an environment that's conducive to the growth of toxigenic species. And that means chronic water damage, the what you tend to see is the stachybotrys. It takes a while to grow. It's a slow grind mold, but it's a wet dry cycle. And so, these molds that are toxigenic typically are what they call tertiary molds. They're the third group of molds to show up to the party. If you've allowed it to get to that point, essentially, they're trying to take over your house and they're trying to get you out. Yeah, so that's what you have to think about it. By the way, they're also using those toxins to kill other molds. It's this is microscopic. This is chemical warfare on a microscopic level. Oh, okay. Yeah, in fact, those chemicals have been used in biological warfare. The T2 mycotoxin was used in the Iran Iraq War. And when you saw those pictures of people bleeding out of their orifices that was it.
Lisa Beres 28:55
Oh, my God.
Jason Earle 28:56
Yeah, no joke, but the reality of it is that it's actually responsible for a very small amount of mold related illness. So, people tend to focus on mycotoxins. They want to do the mycotoxin tests and their blood and urine. That's important, but if you don't have it, but you believe you got mold related illness, you can't disprove that mold related illness with the absence of mycotoxins and your urine. The other thing about mycotoxins it the vast majority of mycotoxin exposure comes from food. So, yes, we import moldy food. America has the lowest bar for that. And out of all the developed countries, right cereals and bread reels. That's right. So that's one of the reasons why we always advocate and no sugar, no grains diet for people that are in recovery from mold. Because the first thing you want to do if you want to detox is stop toxic. Yeah. And mold loves to eat stuff that was at one time living like in other grains and all that stuff, and it just proliferates in that stuff. Wow. So, you really want to make sure that you're taking into consideration the fact that mycotoxins are ubiquitous in our world. In fact, the UN said that up to 25% of grains are contaminated with mycotoxins.
Lisa Beres 29:57
There was a doctor Dr. Hulda Clark, she wrote a book called the cure for all, you know her? The cure for all cancers the cure for all late stage cancers, amazing woman and she was like, yeah, all illness stems from mold and parasites and VOCs. And yeah, I want to say chemicals too. And like you just, you know, kind of go through and trust that something's on the shelf and it's safe. And don't question that. So yeah,
Jason Earle 30:21
That's right. And after that, and just to take that further on the VOC part, she found VOCs and parasites, and fungi and tumors. That was her job, she dissects the tumors for the Canadian health ministry. And so, when she found the VOCs what's interesting is, she didn't connect the dots at the time, but it was most likely microbial VOC�s. Right. So, the molds are producing that. And then also the hormones from the parasites were exacerbating we're actually proliferating the cellular division of the cancer actually fueling the cancer division.
Lisa Beres 30:45
So yeah, careful sushi listeners careful that sushi? That's right. So, Jason, what are some of the common symptoms associated with mold toxicity? This is another question we get asked all the time.
Jason Earle 30:57
It's a huge list. I mean, you've got the typical upper respiratory stuff, which is typically allergic, and then you've got toxicity related, which is generally inflammation, and a lot of cognitive impairment, brain fog, emotional dysregulation, mold, rage is a real thing.
Lisa Beres 31:11
Mold rage, yeah, we did the Dr. Oz Show to actually and we did a show on mold with them. And that was one of the things I was telling my producers, yeah, it's linked to rage. It's just like, oh, this is so interesting, we got to talk about that.
Jason Earle 31:22
Yeah, it's a real thing. But you know, the inflammation part is fascinating. Um, we're working with a high volume psychiatric clinic that does mostly online work, they had 400 new patients a month, and they've identified inflammation as a commonality amongst almost all of their patients, with the exception of people that are coming in for relationship issues, and even those people have some inflammation. So, he believes that and we're working with them, they're going to prescribe our test kit to every single new patient. And so, the reality is, is that mold tends to be, it can mimic a lot of things a lot like Lyme disease, where, you know, shows up in different ways and different people. But the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, you have to be able to engage your senses, and know that you're in an environment where this is, you know, if you see it, smell it or feel it. And then if you find yourself struggling with any sort of emotional dysregulation, inflammation, headaches, nausea, dizziness, fatigue, difficulty concentrating, these kinds of things, any thermal issues. The one thing that's really tricky, though, and I will leave you with this is that there is an emotional component to mold and it's not so much psychosomatic, but fear kicks in, and it generates an adrenal, there's an overwhelm that people get. And then they become sensitive to that. And then that kicks off a whole other response. And so, it's extremely important that you prevent yourself from getting to that point. And that really comes down to trusting your senses. And taking action quickly before these things get out of control.
Lisa Beres 32:39
Yeah, trust your intuition. I mean, I couldn't say that enough was so many things, right? Indeed, people usually know. Yeah, and maybe ignore it. You know, the Whisper. Oh, wow. This is amazing. And like us, Jason and his team have some philosophies. One being that your house should be a safe and healthy place, not a source or cause of illness. We could not agree more. If you suspect mold in your home or office, head now to gotmold.com/RonandLisa, and use the code ronandlisa10 to save 10% of your total order.
Ron Beres 33:13
And that's right. And to order a test kit, choose from one room to room or three-room test kits, and give yourself the peace of mind. You deserve knowing you'll obtain results from an accredited laboratory at a fraction of the cost of hiring a professional inspection company, then you can take the next steps of hiring a pro or remediation company, if needed. Thank you, Jason. You were so articulate, engaged? Yes. I loved all the language you use in describing mold. Like you say, what was the word that you described on benzene being in the air.
Jason Earle 33:45
Ron Beres 33:48
That's what it was. And potpourri.
Jason Earle 33:51
I love this stuff. And I think it's a real privilege to be able to help people navigate this very confusing subject matter because it is confusing even to people even professionals are confused by this. Right? There's so much almost everything about it. It's counterintuitive.
Lisa Beres 34:04
Yeah, you know, it really is a big topic and it's a hot topic and people like you said, you know, I think there was an article I saw on your website about depression linked to mold you know, you have mold in home depression, so, like your emotions are tied into this too. It's an emotional journey to go through that and not know trying to get to the bottom. But anyways, Jason from stocks to Stachybotrys. We love to have you on. We will have all the links in the show notes at ronandlisa.com/podcast. Stay tuned next week brands and get ready to up level your health. See you then. Bye.
Ron Beres 34:38
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