26: The Toxicity of Textiles

Narrator

How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to that healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury. healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts. listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy, you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, bow biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados. Ron and Lisa Beres.

Lisa Beres

You know, we talk a lot about toxins on the healthy home hacks podcast from dangerous chemicals and the water we drink, the air we breathe, the food we eat, the furnishings we sit and sleep on and our household and personal care products. But today we're going to discuss a source of toxic exposure that's often overlooked. Few of us have given any thought to the chemicals that are present in our clothes, footwear, and home goods. In fact, four and 10 people are completely unaware of how textiles or clothing are produced, and most consumers are unaware of the importance of testing these items for harmful substances.

Ron Beres

Between 4008 1000 individual chemicals, enter factories and countless formulations. These substances exist either on the products themselves, or as waste that negatively impacts our air, water and the overall environment. certain levels of chemicals present in the textile production are harmful to the health of humans and the planet causing ailments and those who work in the textile manufacturing plants, as well as people who were used the fashion products like babies, young children, the elderly, and allergy sufferers are especially sensitive to these harmful substances.

Lisa Beres

Yep, and then there's the waste factor. In fact, 85% of the clothing people dispose of ends up in landfills. Guys, that totals 14 point 3 million tons of textile waste each year. And add to that staggering statistic that textile dyeing is the second largest polluter of water globally, the fashion industry produces 20% of global wastewater.

Ron Beres

Our guest today understands the not so glamorous side of fashion and the textile industry. Then mead serves as the managing director of Hohenstein Institute America. He serves as the company's liaison with government agencies, industry, collaborations and trade associations. He also oversees in the US OEKO-TEX, a textile certification that we're going to dive into a little bit later in the show.

Lisa Beres

And prior to joining Hohenstein in 2014, Ben consulted with many brands and industry associations. In fact, he established partnerships to increase industry engagement in green chemistry, and sustainable textile processing. While working for Nike. He helped develop a restricted substances program and was involved in the implementation of sustainable materials and water programs. Ben holds degrees in chemistry and textile chemistry from North Carolina State University and a certificate in green chemistry from the University of Washington.

Ron Beres

Welcome to the show, Ben. So glad to have you.

Ben Mead

Thanks for having me today. It's great to be on here.

Ron Beres

Okay, so Ben, many of the people are aware of chemicals in food and cosmetics, but not so much in clothes and home goods. Do you see an increase in awareness about safety to sit sustainability? For textiles?

Ben Mead

Yeah, I mean, we definitely do I think there's certainly makes sense that there's a strong connection that people really are well connected with, you know, the concerns about chemicals that they're putting in their in their body through food or chemicals that they're putting directly on their skin because of cosmetics. But really, that same concern is essentially are especially related to cosmetics is very similar for textiles. So, whether it's apparel, or home textiles, we still have a lot of exposure through the chemicals that are in those products that are touching our skin. And so that route of exposure is very similar as well. And so, while we do see a lot of people that are concerned, you know about chemicals in general, really starting from a food or cosmetics perspective, we do see them the natural progression is his textiles. And so, we've definitely seen more and more increased awareness in the US over the last couple of years. I think we'll talk about it you know, as we get through that. But the OEKO-TEX standards have been pretty well known in Europe for a long time. And that awareness as it's being raised in the US, is really starting to get people looking a little bit more closely at how do they make the decisions about what they buy.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, it's really amazing. Because we talk a lot about, you know, your skin is your largest organ. So, everything that you put on it, and we think about our shampoo, and our lotion, and our makeup, and our skincare, and sunscreen and all of that. But you know, textiles, it's just taking it that next step, when you think about the fact that, you know, we're wearing clothes all day, we're sleeping in the textiles eight hours a night. And so, you know, it is a natural progression to sort of understand this. But what an important topic that we're covering today, guys. So, I hope you guys get so much out of this show for the listeners, because this is this is really important. So, Ben, for myself, and everyone listening, so that we can make safe and sustainable textile choices when we're out shopping quickly and easily. Scientists have created certifications and labels to help consumers ensure that the fabric products have in fact been tested for toxic chemicals. Can you explain what OEKO-TEX is exactly for our listeners?

Ben Mead

Sure. So OEKO-TEX is really a private standards body. So, under the umbrella of OEKO-TEX, there are a handful of different standards that apply to different products or different processes. And so, one of those that's the most sort of core and fundamental to what OEKO-TEX does. And what is really the background. And the baseline of how OEKO-TEX was founded is a as a standard known as the standard 100. And so that standard 100 really is fundamentally about making sure that textile products, whether they're apparel or home textiles, if they carry the label on it, that it makes it easy for the consumer to know that product has been tested for harmful substances. And when I use it, I can have confidence in it and know that, you know, it's safe and fit for the use of how I'm going to how I'm going to use it or how I'm going to wear it. So, they'll see the tag, they'll see a tag that says OEKO-TEX. And will it say standard? 100? Yeah, absolutely. So that's the biggest piece of it. I mean, the standard is great from a business standpoint, for people that are making buying decisions when they're building textile products to know that okay, what I'm buying is a good choice. But the main background, and the main reason for why the OEKO-TEX Association was formed was really about consumer awareness. And so that label that's on the product, or the label, it's online, where you're finding a product is that is the key and is really the indicator, okay, that that products been tested that that product safe, and it will always say OEKO-TEX, but it will also say standard 100, because there are other labels available. Okay, so there's other work. I know, we're going to get into that. Are there other levels, like 100 is sort of the base level, and then we go up from there? So, you want if you're shopping, do you want to that matters, which one you're choosing? Yeah, I think, yeah, it has more to do with like, what, you know, what's driving that decision. So standard 100 is really about Chemical Safety and product testing. There's another label from OEKO-TEX, which is called made in green, which still considers that product safety, but is also about other sustainability attributes. So, we call it Made in Green, but that also means Okay, it's, it's safe, it's been tested for harmful substances. But it's also made in a more sustainable way. So, with that made and Green Label we really start to look at then energy impact water, use social compliance in the workplace, those sorts of things. Okay, more of that. Yeah, corporate sustainability, and that kind of thing. This is really important, because I know, Ron, and I've been in this industry of healthy living and healthy home for 15 years. And I know a lot of our listeners and readers have seen the tag tags, but didn't know because they're really popping up everywhere now, but didn't know what they meant. And so, I'm really glad that we're going to break this down, it's super important show. are the products, the brands, are they paying extra for that? Or is that more like who they're sourcing from? It's just sort of a benefit? Or do they actually have to pay extra for that label? Yeah, it's, it's interesting, because it's, there's a couple different routes that people can go through it. And so, a lot of the cost, especially related to the standard 100, comes down to the actual lab testing costs, like you mentioned at the beginning, you know, this is a standard that's built by scientists. So obviously, they're, you know, some sort of scientific background to it. And so, the testing in the lab is that is the, one of the most important parts of it. And so that's also what drives the cost of it. So, a lot of times what we see is that if a brand, as a retailer, is labeling a product, they're really reliant on their supply chain, it makes sense to sort of push that testing back into the supply chain where the choice of the chemicals is made. Because if I, if I test the product, and I hope that that's going to change the outcome of the product, that's, that's not really logical. It confirms hopefully, with what I know, and it tells me some things that maybe I couldn't know if there's contamination if there's something that I didn't expect to be in the product, the testing will certainly tell us that but if I find something that I didn't want to find there, I need to have that testing in a place where somebody made the choice about what chemical they put into it in the first place. Because the testing is most valuable as a corrective action then to tell us, okay, we found something, we didn't want it to be there. Now we need to go back and look for an alternative. We need to figure out a way to get that out of there.

Ron Beres

So how does the OEKO-TEX system work? I mean, is there how long is the timeline for something to be tested properly to get that that standardization that we're all looking for?

Ben Mead

The testing itself is pretty straightforward. That testing is actually one of the easier parts even though it's important, the testing takes two, three weeks, depending on the number of products that a company is trying to certify at a time. What's what really is more consuming, time consuming. What takes a lot more of the of the process is getting all the background information that goes into determining what makes sense to test what's necessary to test and where the heck is the product being produced in the first place, and who are all the people that are playing a role in in manufacturing it. So typically, if somebody starting new and they said, Hey, we want to learn certify this product, we want to have the label on the product for consumers, it typically is a two to three-month timeline for a company to start doing that. And so, they're trying to integrate that in with their own product development cycle. So, they're, you know, products that are on the market labeled today, the certification process for it started probably six or nine months before any consumer ever saw.

Lisa Beres

So, I have a fashion line. No, I really don't but let's pretend. And I want to get my garments certified. What do I do? What's the process? What's How does the certification process go?

Ben Mead

So, there's an application document that's available, you can get it from any of the institute's that work with OEKO-TEX, you can find it on the architect�s website, and it asks a series of questions. What are you producing? Where are you producing? Who are you working with? Where are those materials coming from? And so, you fill out that application, you're sending in samples of your products to us, and then we're going to review all that information. Most of the time, we're going to come back to you and say, Hey, we need to clarify this question, we need some additional information. And then once we get through all of that, we're going to send the samples to the lab and they're going to go through that testing process. Assuming that everything passes the testing, then the certificate will be issued, and then your brand, your fancy new brand will have its label to put on the product.

And then you can and then you can start communicating it to your consumers. And the alternative is if something fails, in that initial round of testing, then a corrective action cycle sort of starts and sort of going back and figuring out what is it Why is it there? And then how do we get rid of it? And then it's sort of explaining that to the OEKO-TEX Institute and retesting. Okay, and so this doesn't have anything to do with organic, right? This is what I mean, would pesticides, like at a very high level that showed up? Would that be a red flag? Or how does that tie into it? Yeah, it's related, but not directly, right? Because when we think about organic and food, it's very clear. It's like, direct right? In the textile process, organic, organic certifications that exist, are really focused around what's happening on the farm level or where the natural fiber is being produced. And so that's a big piece of it. Pesticides definitely are something to be we want to be concerned about. But raw cotton, that's been produced with pesticides, it's going to go through so much wet processing afterwards, that typically processed textiles like that, even if they were using pesticides in the growing process, we're not seeing a lot of failures around pesticides, because it's being it's being washed and removed and going through a lot of intensive chemical processing later. So even though we would still test for pesticides, oh, really, there are a lot of other steps that are contributing other chemicals that we don't want that are more likely to end up on the finished product. And what would that be? Are we talking heavy metals? I know we mentioned dyes, toxic dyes, like what are some of these things that can like literally get into our skin? Like, yeah, it really depends on the type of product that it is. So certainly, there are things that we're concerned about differently depending if the product is made out of cotton, or if it's made out of wool, or if it's made out of polyester. So, all of those things that you listen that you listed are relevant. Certainly, for some of the more technical fabrics that we see in outdoor sportswear apparel, we see a lot of sort of functional finishes. So, things that are designed to manage sweat or moisture, manage moisture, water repellent finishes some of these compounds.

I think that's one that's really relevant that people hear a little bit more about right now in the marketplace. So fluorinated finishes, there's certainly a whole class of substances, not just one particular chemical that are restricted and even limited both by government agencies, but now more and more by brands and industry associations themselves and trying to move away from historical technology to newer technology.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, that's a that's a really important topic, the PFC�s because like water resistant fabrics and those stain resistances. And hopefully there is like green chemistry that's available where people can start replacing those, those garments still have their performance without having those chemicals because the PFC�s are showing up everywhere, right? They're showing up in the waterways and breast milk, right? I mean, everywhere we have in our, in our blood, most people have them, over 90% of people have them in their body. So super toxic chemicals that we don't want to keep putting in clothes and products in general, like nonstick cookware.

Ron Beres

I had a quick question. So, we tell our listeners all the time, if you're testing your home for mold, don't use the same company that tested your home to also remediate your home. Would that be true for what? Your certification as well, as far as textiles are concerned?

Ben Mead

Yeah, I think that's a good a good analogy. I mean, certainly, OEKO-TEX is an independent certification. So, it's a network of 18 different institutes, we in the US would call them labs, you know, it's a European based Association. And so, there are 18 different testing laboratory companies that have representatives globally. And so OEKO-TEX develops its own standard, it sets the rules, it manages the list of chemicals, and then it independently verifies what a company that's applying for certification wants. So again, it's looking at it from the sense of, Okay, if I'm a brand, and I set my own set of requirements, that can be a great practice in terms of limiting chemical certification. But if I'm a consumer, I think I have a little bit more confidence if somebody independent from the company says, Hey, I made this rule now trust me that I comply to my own rule. Right, exactly. So that's the way that that OEKO-TEX operates. And certainly, both from the development of the requirements but also from the testing and the issuing of a certification. It's always independent from the company that's carrying the label on their products, right?

Ron Beres

Is this an annual thing? Like how often do you recertify with a particular company?

Ben Mead

It is for standard 100, the certification is valid for a year. And so, every company reapplies, on an annual basis. So that means that they have to update that application, they have to tell us anything that's changed, they have to provide new information about their inputs. And they also provide new certificates from their suppliers because all of their supplier certificates are renewed. And so, everybody along the chain is being reevaluated and retested on an annual basis. And so, I think that's an important balance to strike because we know that that production is always changing. And so, figuring out what's the right, what's the right timing to do retesting, because the testing is destructive. Once I test that T shirt, that T shirt is gone, right? I can't sell that T shirt that I tested. So, I have to use that as a proxy along with understanding of the quality management systems in place, that that is going to be representative of how that company and that product is going to be produced. But still having testing on an annual basis makes sense for us.

Lisa Beres

That's interesting, going back to my fashion line. Like, like, say I have, you know, an item that has multiple pieces of fabric is every single piece of fabric in that article tested? And like if you have 50 items in your line, every single piece of fabric is tested, or is it kind of more like, okay, the majority?

Ben Mead

Yeah, I hope in your business plan, you've accounted for all this testing. We think it's important, but it's not free. And so even, it's not even just every fabric that's important to be tested. So, in our garments, even though the fabric may be the biggest piece of it, it may be what touches the most of our skin. There are all of these other accessory components, even down to labels and stitching threads and buttons and zippers, all of those components have to meet the same requirements. And they have to they have to go through the testing as well. And so that's why typically, the garment factory itself is trying to work with manufacturers that are aligned on the same thought process that they are. So, they're trying to buy zippers and buttons and stitching thread that have already been tested by those producers so that they don't have to pay to retest it. Because Yeah, if we think about it, if we're not using a pre certified component, and there's 20 garment factories, they could they could essentially be retesting that same thread over and over and over again. And that's not the best use of resources. So even in that case, it makes more sense that most of our testing is done at this stage where the raw materials are produced rather than where they're all sewn together.

Lisa Beres

Right. That's that makes sense. So how does OEKO-TEX decide which harmful substances or chemicals to test? And do you guys update that list is like new chemicals and things come out and we discover new chemicals.

Ben Mead

The process sort of as I mentioned, it's a collection of multiple different institutes in different levels. And so, there are a lot of stakeholders in that process. And so, every year, sort of mid-year, and then the decisions are finalized at the end of the year, representatives from those different Institute's technical representatives are getting together and saying, Okay, this is what we've seen, this is what we've experienced. In the last year of certifications, these are things that need to change. But also, this is what's going on. From a legislative standpoint, this is what our testing outside of this program has done this, these are, these are areas or substances that we think need to be added to the list. Or it may be that methodologies in the testing have changed. And so, we think it makes sense to lower the limit levels. And so that all of those things factor into how the standard itself gets shaped and gets changed. And so the OEKO-TEX cadence on that is really that on an annual basis, every year in January, the new list of changes are introduced and rolled out and, and share with current customers, but also, you know, prospective customers and everybody else that's utilizing it or interested in it. And then those changes go into effect in April. So there's a little bit of time for companies to adjust and understand how's that going to impact with what they're already doing and producing, but it also enables the consumer to have a constantly rolling standard that's updated and, and improved in acts like the sort of the most strict standard available in the market. So all of that is kind of transfer is not visible to the consumer, but it's happening behind the scenes, because all the consumer really needs to see is that label and know, hey, if it has the label, if I check it online, and it's valid, that I know that that product still meets the current version of the standard. Now are the levels or standards different in the US versus Europe as far as the OEKO-TEX, you know, label, is it or is it all the same? standard 100. For no matter what country you're in, you have confidence in knowing that the standards the same? Absolutely, it's a global standard. So, if you see the standard on a product of the label on a product produced in Germany, it's the same as a product produced in China sold in the US, the requirements are the same.

Ron Beres

Which by the way, that's where the name came from. You said it's a German name, correct?

Ben Mead

Yep. So oak, OEKO means eco ecological is the basis of it. So, I think there wasn't a big vision back in 1992, that this would be some sort of global standard. The idea I think, otherwise, we might have chosen a different name or a little bit easier name for the US to produce. But the you know; the real driver was that there was some legislation coming to the German market. And so, there was there was really a need and a driver for the for consumers to easily and transparently know that this product has been tested in a safe compared to something else that they might have the option to buy.

Lisa Beres

Now, also, can consumers go onto the website? And is there a list of these are the chemicals that, you know, we don't allow? Or these are the levels? Is the standard kind of broken down for people to understand?

Ben Mead

Yep, everything that's part of the process, part of the certification process is publicly available. So, you don't even have to pay to have access to the standard, the list of chemicals is there. The limit values are there. And even the sort of the requirements that that a producer has to go through to get certified are available there as well.

Lisa Beres

Oh, that's great. Now is flame retardants part of that? I mean, okay. Yeah, no, we'd be going under each type of flame retardant. Right. Yeah.

Ben Mead

So, the flame retardants are certainly a big a big group. Now, for certain product types. That's not you know, we don't expect those to be used, but OEKO-TEX does approach it in two different ways. So, there's some active chemicals like antimicrobials, and flame retardants, that there's a separate sort of pre-approval process that the chemical producers have to go through. And then certainly there's that follow up testing as well.

Lisa Beres

That would be more in because with fabrics, it's anything it's car seats, right? It's all of that it's furnishings, anything that has textiles.

Ben Mead

Yeah. So, we could we could tend to see that more in like in furnishing, certainly, there's some flame retardant or flame requirements, flammability requirements around mattresses and things like that. We also do see it because we see a standard 100 and OEKO-TEX being used in PPE, so personal protective equipment and workwear and even, you know, firefighter gear and things like that. Right, so, so places where it is functional, that, you know, we definitely want to protect that user from flammability as well, right?

Lisa Beres

Of course, we're big believers. And with bedding we like the natural flame retardants are in the wool and all of that, that works as a natural flame retardant. So, we understand that OEKO-TEX has some labels that consumers can find at retail. In fact, I see it a lot at Target, you know, picking up just a little plush toy or a baby clothes when it comes to shopping. I noticed that a lot lately where I used to not see it and now, I feel like I'm seeing it everywhere. Can you tell us a little more about what this means for the listeners?

Ben Mead

Yeah, I think that's Sort of what we've seen in the last couple years is that there are quite a few retailers that you know, different stages, home retailers and, and sort of diverse retailers that have started to label a lot of products. And so, every time a retailer labels product, that means it's a good thing for us mean, it means that a consumer is seeing the label and they're starting to ask the questions and wondering what does it mean and, and maybe asking another retailer to do it? Because I think that's important, from the sense of that makes it very easy to know that like, as you're passing through the aisle, okay, if I have two choices, I could if I see the label on this one, then I can pick that really quickly and know that it's that it's safe, it doesn't necessarily mean the other one isn't safe. But how do you know is the real challenge as a consumer.

Lisa Beres

Right? Same with like certifications for anything, cleaning products or personal care? Without those third-party certifications, you don't really know. And you're taking a risk, even if they tell you the product is eco-friendly? There's no way to prove that until you unless you have a third-party independent company that tells you Yes, we've tested it. So, this, this goes across the board, looking for the certifications on your food, your organic food and all of that.

Ron Beres

But I was curious, why is there a certificate number on each label? And then how does that help the consumer?

Ben Mead

Yep, so in the same way, so following right on that if I'm in this, if I'm in the store, I see the label, and I'm a naturally skeptical consumer, because I've seen so many of these self-declarations, and so many bags. Were too close to it, maybe that's why I'm so skeptical. But every standard 100 certificate, every made in Green Label does have a certificate number that's on there. And so that serves some purposes for us as we're trying to validate that to make sure that the integrity of the labels that are in the market are maintained. But it also from a consumer standpoint, is a way for you to quickly validate it. So, by taking that number and going to the architect�s website, there's a tab at the top of the page that says label check, and you can put that number right in there. And you can validate that, okay, the description of the product matches what I tried to buy, it also tells me that that that certificate is valid. So, this, as we talked about earlier, the certificates need to be renewed every year. So, if somebody produced something, two years ago, they had certification, that was great. But if they decided they didn't want to continue renewing that certification, we don't want them to continue labeling the product and promoting that the product is safe, because we don't know anything about it. What's changed over that time. So, there's some indication then to the consumer that, okay, this certificate is not valid. And please contact the institute essentially, is what it tells you. And so, we get that constantly, you know, a part of our role here in the us is to support brands and manufacturers are trying to understand how they can integrate OEKO-TEX certifications into their own internal systems. But we get just as many direct consumer communications even just before talking today, I was dealing with one where it was somebody bought a product online, it was promoted as standard 100. They had it shipped to their home. And then when they got it, it didn't have the label the label on it. And so now they're concerned, okay, I bought this product, specifically, because I had two choices. And this one was standard 100 certified. And now I'm skeptical. So, it turns out, I'm not the only one wrong, but there are other people that are skeptical. And so, in that case, part of our role is to help can to confirm those certified products versus non-certified products as well. But we'd really rather that the consumer had it at their fingertips to be able to check it. Yeah, before they make the purchasing decision.

Ron Beres

I'm curious, are there abilities to scan the labels?

Lisa Beres

Yeah, the scanning the QR code or something?

Ben Mead

So, some of the labels do there is an option from OEKO-TEX. Some people you know, real estate is at a premium on some of those labels. But the there is a QR code. And so, for standard 100, it would take you right to that page and give you that validation for made in green, it's pretty interesting, because there are some other there's some other information that we've put into that label. So, it creates the ability of the consumer to, to look at the supply chain. So, it creates a little bit of transparency to where the finished product was made, but also where the raw materials that came into it are. And so, I think that's increasingly important to consumers as well.

Lisa Beres

Wow, I�m impressed with that lady that called you earlier.

Ron Beres

She's dedicated, she's dedicated.

Lisa Beres

And you know, it's really good. It's good to see consumers becoming so aware. Because you know, you want to get what you're paying for, and you should. Now speaking of that, how should consumers look for these labels when they're purchasing a product? I mentioned that plush toy and the little baby clothes that's I've seen, of course, bedding would they be on the tag? Would they have an attached tag or sewn in tag?

Ben Mead

Yep. So, consumers use it or sorry, brands use it in in multiple different ways. So, we do see it as a permanent label. So depending on how the products made, it might be its own separate kind of woven label sewn into the back of the garment or printed label that's kind of put down there where the carrying content labels are in the garment and a lot of times, we see it directly on the packaging. So that's also acceptable from OEKO-TEX, it doesn't have to be a permanent label, but the consumer should have access to it, they should be able to see it if especially in the case, if we're making a claim of a product, like in my example, that we're making a claim of a product being certified online. And then when they get it, there should also be a label claim on there as well. But so, context has some rules around the direct use. So, the most common use of the labeling is to use the label artwork, as OEKO-TEX provides it. And there are some other cases where you'll see it sort of written as text again. So, you'll see again, the same critical requirement requirements. So, you'll see the architect branding, you'll see the name of the standard. So, most of the time, standard 100, are made in green, and then you also see that direct reference number, so it gives you still as the consumer, even if it's in a text form information to check the validity of it. It doesn't have to have the logo. No, no, we would prefer that we think that makes it easier and faster for the consumer. But it it's not mandatory, as long as some of those other elements are met.

Ron Beres

Okay. How does that work with a company like Target? Do they require all the brands they work with to have the OEKO-TEX label? Or does it not work that way as it just they want, they suggest it other ways to kind of police this on a larger level to make sure everyone's following the proper standard.

Ben Mead

Yeah, and again, it's flexible context, it has a set of guidelines. And so, there are different ways that people could approach it. So certain brands want to be very much in control of that they you know, maybe they've had some sort of legal issue in the past. And so, they want to be certain that any claim they put on a product has been validated by their internal teams. And so, in their cases, there's a system where they could get their own their own certificate from OEKO-TEX and we would help support them in terms of as they're labeling products, they're sending us a subset of them, and we're validating for them. Okay, yep, that product is pre certified by your manufacturer, their certificate covers all the products, you're good to go with labeling on that product. And sometimes other brands are really specifying, okay, that's what we're buying from you, we need it to be certified. But you know, and we're going to spot check that we're going to look at it ourselves, but they're going to use the certification number of the garment manufacturer of the finished product manufacturer. And that's also acceptable from OEKO-TEX. And that sometimes this is where we get more questions from the consumer, because we don't even always know then, which retailers are labeling what products because they are working behind the scenes, they own the responsibility to do it. And so, we work through a market surveillance in that case, we're looking at what's happening as OEKO-TEX, what's happening in the market, what products are available in the market? Are those products that are labeled certified? And are they labeled properly? And so that's part of the OEKO-TEX associations internal quality assurance process as well.

Lisa Beres

Okay, so let's pivot. I know, I've been talking a lot about sustainable fashion, it's been my theme for this interview. But we always think of health concerns, the chemicals, the products, the environmental issues, but we don't always get a chance to talk about the facilities and the working conditions of the employees. So, what is OEKO-TEX�s approach to these topics? Is there any part of that, that you guys cover?

Ben Mead

Yeah, for sure. So, it really, from a consumer labeling standpoint, it really becomes a bigger part when we talk about that made in Green Label. And the made in Green Label is based on standard 100, for finished products for Chemical Safety, but also what we call step certification, which means sustainable textile production. And so that's, that's something that's happening at the facility level. And so that's where our concerns are, are being sort of accounted for in terms of social compliance, worker safety, but also what's happening from an a general sense of how much water is being used, what's happening with all the wastes that are coming out of the facility, how much energy is being used. And so, I think that's an area that continues to increase in terms of interest and awareness of consumers that you know, where a product is made, and how it's made is also as important as the safety of the product at the end. So, the step certification is a pretty rigorous, a rigorous tool that OEKO-TEX uses. So, it's something that would cover everything that's happening in a facility. So, we're standard 100, a company that's producing 10,000 different styles, they could choose that 100 of them are standard 100 certified when it comes down to step because it's so hard to separate, okay, we're can't just say we're only using water for these types of products. The step certification covers everything that's happening in a facility. And so, in that case, it's more reliant on somebody from OEKO-TEX is going in and evaluating what's happening in that facility. So, again, we start with a self-assessment, the company would tell us, what are they doing, how are they producing it? What are the systems they have in place? How do they measure what's going on and How they accounted for our objectives before we go in there, and then somebody from our team would go in and validate that to say, okay, yep, you provided us this documentation, we can confirm that on site?

Ron Beres

They go undercover? Is it very transparent?

Ben Mead

Yeah, I mean, so Okay, Texas background is really on environmental and chemical. So, there are other organizations that do a lot more around social compliance. And so, there are a lot of organizations that do worker safety and social compliance. Certainly, when we're in a facility, if a company hasn't been through something like that, our auditor teams are trained to validate that to interview employees and things like that. But these certifications, most of the time, social compliance issues and that awareness has been around for a long time. And so, these existing certifications tend to factor in as equivalent certifications within steps. So, if a company already has an existing social compliance certification, we might spot check it. But spending three days interviewing workers when they were all just interviewed the week before, that doesn't really gain anything other than some money for the for OEKO-TEX that's doing it. And so that the focus from OEKO-TEX going in there is to focus on the areas that somebody else is looking at closely. And so that's where it tends to be more on the environmental and the chemical side of things. And so those, those certifications are, I would say growing and awareness as that's something that supply chains and brands are really interested in the overall sustainability picture at the facility will speak.

Ron Beres

We�re going to ask you to get out your crystal ball, because as we move into 2021, what trends do you hope will gain traction and sustainability and safety?

Ben Mead

I mean, I think first and foremost, there's a lot of work that's been going on for a long time. And so, we really just hope in the sustainability front, that the cost impacts that people have had over 2020. And how that shaped out for retailers and brands doesn't undo some of that sustainability work. So, we hope that as those budgets are aligned, that that we still have the ability to do what's necessary from a sustainability standpoint, whether it's chemical testing, whether it's social compliance, whether it's work on more preferred materials going into it. So that's the first one. I would say, you know, we talked about PFC�s already. I think that's an area that is going to continue to have focus in 2021. I mean, we, you know, you're always looking at it thinking, Okay, the list of chemicals is growing and growing and growing, are we ever going to get to the end where everything we're using is totally safe? And I think that the more we know, and the more we test, the more places we find that okay, this, isn't it, you know, what we thought was okay, maybe it wasn't as good as we thought it was, or now there's an innovation, that's better. And so that list, yeah, from a chemical safety standpoint, will continue to grow. I think, certainly, you know, even unrelated to, you know, pandemic challenge is that there's a lot of talk around, that sort of being the precursor to a climate change issue as well. And so maybe we're just being prepared for that. And so, I think that the climate change piece, and how that filters into these certifications is something that gains momentum in 2021. A lot of companies a lot of brands that have goals, heading into 2030, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and impacts there. And so, a lot of that can be accomplished through their, their own facilities, but so much of it is external partner involved in direct to the material choices. So, I think that that's going to be one that people are really going to be tackling, you know, trying to measure. If they're not already. I mean, if they're not measuring already, they're a little bit behind, but trying to measure already. What's our baseline impact right now? Yeah. And then how do we accomplish these goals? If we said, we're going to have this much reduction? You know, and we're still trying to grow the bottom line, we're still which means sell more products? How do we accomplish these reductions? And at the same time, you know, be profitable.

Lisa Beres

Do you have any star performer brands that you can share maybe would help consumers know, hey, this company is doing a really good job? You don't have to tell us like in order.

Ben Mead

That's like saying, Oh, you know, it's just between us which one of your kids is the favorite kid? Right.

Ben Mead

Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I think like we've already pointed out it's the companies that are that are labeling there's a lot of companies that are doing great things and so having that front and center and easy for consumers to find are the ones that are you know,

Lisa Beres

He doesn't want to name names.

Ben Mead

I'm not going to name any days there's too many. There's too many. There's too many too many risks of leaving somebody out but you know, because bad ones bad. My wish list that people that we want that we think okay, they should be working with us on standard 100. No, so I mean, I think that the reality is that there are all you know, you mentioned coming All those brands that are doing a lot of good work and a lot of working with, you know, labeling a lot of products in the market and really pushing their suppliers to be better and into to accomplish it. And part of that is for meeting their own goals. And so, OEKO-TEX and the standard 100 and made in green are both really set up to help those brands support what they're already trying to do. And so, trying to be aligned with what are they trying to accomplish and make it easier so that they can start working on something else? So yeah, okay. Text is an expert in chemical testing. If I'm a brand, I don't need to set up my own department of people that are doing chemical testing, I already have an external partner that that's what they do all the time. And they're experts. So, work on something else work on figuring out, how are we going to do accomplish that greenhouse gas emission?

Lisa Beres

And let us do what we do. Right, exactly. All right. Well, this has been so awesome. I hope you guys have been enjoying this. And it's got so many takeaways, and are now a savvier consumer and shopper. Ben, what is one thing that you hope our listeners will take away from today's conversation?

Ben Mead

Number one is just that that that that label makes it easy. So, it again, it doesn't mean that everything else is unsafe. But it means that if I see the label, it makes it a really clear choice to me that it's independent. It's a third party. And I know it's been through some sort of testing. It's made, it's made safely and it's fit for use. And the same way on made and green that it's made in a more sustainable way.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, you have that consumer confidence. And you know that you're doing your part, you know, by supporting brands, suppliers, or I guess suppliers that are that are doing the right thing as well. So, go shopping friends, go get them, go get some OEKO-TEX stuff, and then let us know what you found. You know, textiles are a huge part of our everyday life, but can have detrimental impacts as we've heard today, friends next time, you're looking for a pair of pants or a set of sheets. Look for brands with verifiable third-party labels that we talked about today that ensure the product has been tested for toxic chemicals. Let's vote with our wallets by encouraging textile chemical testing, to have a positive impact on ourselves. And of course, our future generations.

Ron Beres

Learn more at Hohenstein.us So, that's h o h e n s t i n dot us. See you next week, friends, and thanks for joining us.

Lisa Beres

Bye everyone. See you next week.

Narrator

This episode of the healthy home hacks podcast has ended. But be sure to subscribe for more healthy living strategies and tactics to help you create the healthy home you always dreamed of. And don't forget to rate and review so we can continue to bring you the best content. See you on the next episode.