34: Insider Secrets to Choosing the Healthiest Mattress

Narrator

How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts. listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy, you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, Val biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados, Ron and Lisa Beres.

Ron Beres

Hello, friends and welcome to today's show. Question. Are you getting enough sleep? In a Wait, wait, wait before you answer yes. Ask yourself, not the number of hours. But the amount of quality healthy sleep? Are you waking up rested and rejuvenated? Or do you have trouble falling asleep? suffer from insomnia wake up in the middle of the night, unable to fall back asleep? If you answered yes to any of these, you are not alone.

Lisa Beres

The day the average American sleeps less than seven hours a night about two hours less than a century ago. And according to the CDC, more than 80 million American adults are chronically sleep deprived boys. So rather than rush to the nearest Starbucks for a triple mocha Frappuccino, just to get through the day, how about getting to the root of your lost sleep boss once and for all.

Ron Beres

What most people ignore is the materials they're sleeping on. Adults spend approximately eight hours a night sleeping totally in almost 1/3 of their lives while babies but almost two thirds of their time sleeping turns out your mattress and bedding can be a host of biological contaminants and chemicals that can have negative health consequences. Not to mention exposing your body to toxic chemicals linked to cancer, fertility problems, hormone disruption and so much more.

Lisa Beres

That's right Ron and according to a study by made safe called detox your sleep foam mattresses, which you're probably sleeping on off gas VOC�s, volatile organic compounds, which we're going to get into in today's show, including a chemical manufactured with a poisonous gas originally used as a chemical weapon in world war one that was responsible for many deaths. Baby mattresses are often made with waterproof vinyl, which can off gas plasticizing validates and harmful VOC�s directly into the baby's sleep environment. And if that's not enough, sheets, label wrinkle free, no wrinkle easy care no iron other terms can contain a finish of formaldehyde, a known carcinogen.

Ron Beres

Someone who has four decades of experience investigating and assessing hazardous materials contamination, resolving environmental problems and protecting human health, safety and the environment is our special guest today. Barry check Barry chickens, the founder and the technical director of major pick a manufacturer of award winning certified organic mattresses. He has had a lifelong interest in preserving the environment, not only for us, but for all future generations as well. a Board-Certified environmental engineer Barry is an advocate for legislative reform and was invited to testify in Washington DC for congressional subcommittee exploring chemical reform. There is also a frequent speaker and thought leader on the benefits of sustainable product design.

Lisa Beres

Working in tandem with his sons Barry established Naturepedic in 2003. Barry, welcome to the show.

Ron Beres

Welcome.

Barry A. Cik

Thank you very much. You know, you guys just made the case for me better than I can ever make.

Lisa Beres

It's always better to have someone else tout you. Well, we are so happy to have you, Barry. I know our listeners are going to be so excited about this show. So, let's just dive right in. So, can you explain to our audience, what actually is a conventional mattress? What does that mean when people hear that term?

Barry A. Cik

So, let me give you the big picture here. We do not live in the same world that our grandparents lived in our grandparents or great grandparents� homes. Everything was cotton and wool. Steel was natural. Okay, the water all these chemicals, the whole world has changed. Alright, in the past century, officially, approximately 85,000 chemicals have been invented that never existed before. In reality, it's even more, but we're talking about an incredible amount of chemicals that just never existed. We don't know what they're doing to our bodies, if they don't know, we don't know, if it's causing cancer, we don't know what it's doing to our kids. We don't know what it's doing to our babies. We don't know what it's doing to anything. And these chemicals are hurting everybody. Now the chemical people, let me just insert this. So, we're all clear at the beginning. The chemical people will say, you know what? The dose makes the poison. If the dose is small enough, it can't be a poison. Right? And on paper, that's correct. In the classroom, that's correct. If the dose is small, but at what dose does this particular camera chemical started to make trouble? Nobody really knows. So, what what's true on paper means nothing in real life. Okay? Sometimes the doses can be very small, and they can start to hurt your nobody really knows. And then what if you get that little dose every single day? All right. What happens when this little chemical combines with that little chemical and creates a third chemical? We don't know what's going on. Anybody that tells you that we have everything under control is a liar.

Lisa Beres

That's a great point, Barry, because I think when they test these chemicals if they test because I think it's less than 200 of the 85,000 that you mentioned, have even really ever been tested for health and safety. They're testing that one chemical, right? They're not testing that chemical in combination, like you had mentioned with other chemicals that were getting exposed to.

Barry A. Cik

That's correct. They're not testing. And now, why are they not testing? So, there's two points that everybody needs to understand we trust, you know, your typical average person trusts, you walk into the store, something looks nice and pretty, you know, we assume that it's fine. But that's not the way that's not the way it really works. So why aren't chemicals tested? So, there's two reasons. One reason is that there's no law that says you have to test we live in the wild west, we really do. Okay, there's no, yeah. And now and then there's a second reason. The second reason is that there is a law that chemical manufacturers do have to tell their employees about the dangers of the chemicals in their plant that used to be called the MSDS sheet. Safety Data Sheet today is called the SDS sheet. Okay. But there's a big loophole in that one law. The big loophole is, if you don't know about something, you're not legally obligated to tell your employees. So, so for liability purposes, believe it or not, many if not, most manufacturers don't want to know.

Lisa Beres

Huh, right. Why?

Barry A. Cik

They don't if they don't know, they don't have to say anything. Yeah, and that's the reality of the marketplace. All right. So yeah.

Lisa Beres

Is it? Would you say is it's a self-policing industry, then? The chemical industry?

Barry A. Cik

It's a non-policing industry.

Lisa Beres

I guess, don't they technically have to test for sate flammability or Well, we're going to get into that, but um, acute short-term issues, just not long term. Or, no, you don't even have to test for that?

Barry A. Cik

Oh, no, no, no. Now we'll talk about flammability. You know, whenever you're ready, we'll explain family. There are certain specific requirements that they have to meet. But that doesn't mean that they have to test the chemicals for what it will do to people's bodies. Oh, those are two separate boats, two separate ballgames.

Ron Beres

Okay. Wow. You know, I was really impressed created by the inspiration behind this too. So, I know many years ago, you were shopping for your first grandchild crib mattress. And you were troubled to discover the state of the baby mattress industry in general. And it was at that moment. It led you to start nature p tech. I think that that's what an incredible launching pad that you were such a great grandpa.

Barry A. Cik

Okay, so let me give you the big picture. All right, let's first go back and understand the background. So, I went to engineering school. I'm a board-certified environmental engineer, I've been chasing chemicals for a long time. I'm certified by the Institute of professional environmental practice. I'm a certified hazardous materials manager. So, if you happen to own a landfill, I'm, I'm able to help you with your landfill. You know, I'm an author of a textbook for government Institutes of environmental assessments and so on. Okay. certified by the high EPA. So anyways, in engineering school, the joke was the solution to pollution is dilution. Very funny. Except not so funny at all. Because when, back in 1970, when I was in engineering school, Lake Erie was dying. And I happen to live close to Lake Erie, okay? And why was like you�re dying. Okay. So, we have to understand one fundamental point, which is more important than anything else, I'm going to say in this whole program. Though, the fundamental point was, is something that I learned back then, in 1870, when industry started dumping your toxic waste into the lake. The lake swallowed it up. No problem. At 90 no problem. 19 1019 3019. No problem. 1970 big problem. what's the what's the lesson? The lesson is, do you think you're going to your going to just sit there and dump toxic chemicals into the environment and get away with it? No, you're not going to pay the price. Yeah. Okay. So that's the, that's the fundamental lesson. Now let's take it to my grandchild.

Later on, after I understood the issue, like Gary, I also understood you know, what that applies to me and you and our kids? And you know, my grandkids? Yeah, yeah, we're going to sit there and dump toxic chemicals, you think they're not going to be affected? You think there are kids today? Who are who aren't sick because of all the toxic chemicals that they're somehow getting? Okay, it's all over the place. Yeah, all over the place. And there are kids who are sick, developmental issues, all kinds of issues, and nobody even knows where it's coming from. But I'm telling you where at least a lot of it is coming from. It's from chemicals.

Lisa Beres

Chemicals and our water, in our air, and our seafood everywhere. Yeah, the seafood. And even when you go back to that 1970 when they were dumping the chemicals, you know that the sea life, the aquatic life was getting that pollution, even if like we hadn't seen the results at that point. It's really scary. And it's really scary. We just interviewed senior scientists from the Environmental Working Group, talking about PFA s and the nonstick chemical on that. And that, you know, it's found in virtually every single person that they've ever tested has it in their blood, and that we're getting that mainly through water, although there's other sources too. And I know we're going to get into that and how that correlates with mattresses too. But speaking of mattresses, this is, you know, for listeners who think, Oh, this is just an overpriced mattress, why would I need an organic mattress and when people hear the word organic, they think of food. So why is it important to have an organic mattress or bedding for that matter?

Barry A. Cik

Okay, so I'm answering this question, and also the previous question. I'm still getting there. Okay, so, so what happened 17 years ago or so 2003. My wife sent me to a baby store to get a crib mattress for our first grandchild. So, to make a long story short, the surface is vinyl with a chemical called phthalates. So, vinyl is actually polyvinyl chloride. polyvinyl chloride comes in two forms hard and soft. When it's hard. It's called PVC, like your PVC pipe. When it's off, it's called vinyl. The way you get to vinyl is you add a chemical called phthalates, a plasticizer. The problem is that chemical is a carcinogen. Okay, and it doesn't stay into vinyl evaporates into the air. When vinyl gets hard, it starts to crack on you, all the ballots are gone, it's going back to the heartbeat, PVC. Okay. And the babies are breathing this stuff. All right, and then and then underneath, you have polyurethane foam, which is made with all kinds of questionable chemicals, and then polyurethane foam because it's mostly petroleum. It's highly flammable. So, then they got to put flame retardant, you know, within there to try to keep it down. And then there's formaldehyde and pesticides and GMOs and fluids, and you name it, it's there. So here I am, in this baby store. And just looking at everything, and I just don't know what to do because I can't, you know, I'm not going to buy this stuff. It's not good for anybody, certainly not for a baby. Right? But the moment of truth was when the person at the store, the salesperson said to me Oh, come on. If it wasn't safe, the government wouldn't allow it to be sold.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, that we hear that all the time.

Barry A. Cik

Yeah. That was like a moment of truth to me. No. And I came home that night. I'm kidding around with my wife. And I said, you know what? My grandfather slept on straw. We happen to have Amish neighbors. Why don't we just go get some straw?

Lisa Beres

Sleep in the barn.

Barry A. Cik

It was funny. I was sort of serious, you know? Yes. No, I don't know. I just didn't know what to do. So, we made a mattress, and we put it on the internet and people started sending me money. And I go whoa.

Barry A. Cik

Alright, so now to answer your question. What's a typical mattress? So, a typical mattress is, is mostly synthetic materials. Lots of chemicals, lots of flame retardants, and you're sleeping on them. Think about it for a second. When you go to sleep. What's the point? The point is you want to revive your body. You want your immune system to regenerate. You don't want to be fighting these chemicals all night long. What's, what's the point? Okay, but nobody pays attention to the mattress. I mean, you walk into somebody's home, they'll spend all the money they can possibly afford on the nicest dining room set. And TV. Yeah, yeah, the best TV the best sound system. And then when it comes time to go to sleep, they're sleeping on. God knows what in God knows how old it is. Yeah. And what's in there? what's growing in there, no one's paying attention. And guess what? From the moment you walk into, through the door into your home to the moment you walk out? Where didn't where exactly, were you most of that time? You're in bed on that man? Yeah, nobody is paying attention.

Lisa Beres

So, I agree with that, Barry. You know, it's that out of sight out of mind. I think because of these chemicals that you're talking about these materials? Well, we don't see them, we definitely don't see the chemicals. And like you said, when you go to shop for the mattress, you don't get a list of the chemicals. And people don't even know people don't even know polyurethane foam is derived from fossil fuels a petroleum product. And I think Ron and I, like when we first got into this business heard, the average mattress is like a barrel of crude oil. Like you're sleeping on a barrel of crude oil. Yeah. And yeah, so it's easy to just throw in a pretty duvet and think that your bedroom looks great, right? And that pay attention to really what's under there.

Barry A. Cik

Yeah, you know, your typical Queen mattress. If it's a foam, if it's a polyurethane foam mattress, which most are, you're sleeping on about 20 gallons of petroleum.

Lisa Beres

Oh, wow, 20 gallons? That's a good stat. If that's not a wakeup call listeners, stay tuned, because there'll be more zingers coming up.

Ron Beres

Barry, that sounds so crude.

Lisa Beres

And your skin is your largest organ. And so, you're breathing in these chemicals and your skin's absorbing chemicals. And it's like No wonder you feel like crap when you wake up.

Ron Beres

So, Barry, you went from basically, hay the organic. How did you make that transition? How did you get there?

Barry A. Cik

Well, we did a little bit of research. And then we realized, well, first of all, we realize that the biggest problem is we live in a petroleum society. Okay, you open the door to your home and look around, and what's natural and what's synthetic. And you'll be shocked at how much is synthetic and is basically petroleum based. We live in a petroleum world. People don't quite see that people don't never, you know, but that that's the bottom line. So, what you have to do is say, Okay, how do we get away from the petroleum and the synthetics and all that? How do we get away from all that stuff? So, then you have to go natural. Okay. But, but what does that mean? Okay, and what is the word natural mean? See, we're starting, we're starting to get into, into advertising terminology, greenwashing, right. greenwashing. greenwashing means people are just making things up, or they're going partway, or they're making something look more natural. And they're calling it green. Yeah, there's no regulations. So, what's green not it's whatever you want it to be. What's natural is wherever you want it to be. What's eco-friendly. It's whatever you want it to be. You know, there's no rules and that's the problem we live in. We live in a world where there are no rules or no regulations. You know, you can You can do what you want to get away with it, the government's not going to come after you because there's no rules.

Lisa Beres

There's no rules. Yeah, and I mean, that's really common. And you'll see a green packaging. And they'll use that they'll use the colors, they'll use the leaves to make it look environmentally friendly, or call it green. There was a there was a cleaner that Ron and I were interested in years and years ago, and it was called organic, something come to find out, there was nothing organic about the cleaner, they literally just slap that term on there. Now at least the USDA, you know, does have the national organics program, which oversees that labeling, but I think I think you can still just use the word organic and get away with it. But if you want something organic, you do have to look for those third-party certifications.

Barry A. Cik

Alright, so let's talk about that for a minute. Okay. There's, there is one difference when it comes to the term organic. For the other terms, natural, ecofriendly green, there's no regulation whatsoever, no matter what, when it comes to organic, it's important to realize something, there are regulations if the product is an agricultural product. So, when you walk into the supermarket, you want to buy some apples or oranges. Okay, if it's going to be called an organic apple, it has to go through the USDA Organic program, the National Organic program, NOP, alright. And that is a nice program. And that program is regulated by the US government. However, that word organic is defined only for an agricultural product.

Lisa Beres

Right.

Barry A. Cik

All right. So, the minute you have a product that's not agricultural, whether it's a mattress or shirt or anything, USDA doesn't care doesn't get involved, pays no attention to it. So, people get confused on the word organic, because it depends on what you're talking about. If you're talking about a mattress, there are no rules. All right. You can put the label organic all you want and you get away with it.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, and we talked about that at the at the prior to the show, Barry, that that's very confusing for people. So, the cotton is an agricultural product. So, the cotton can be certified organic, but not the entire mattress because there's other elements in there, right that aren't agricultural. So, listeners, when you're shopping, you do want that certified organic wool, I guess wool would be considered right? Well, oh, well, wool, cotton and those things, but you can't get the entire mattress.

Barry A. Cik

Let me also just point out, even if the cotton is if we when the cotton is on the farm, and you want to call it organic, in other words you want to sell you want to sell just raw cotton, and you want to call it organic. Yes, the USDA program would have put apply, but once that cotton is put into a product, USDA doesn't pay attention anymore. Even if it was talking about the coffee, and you're calling the cotton organic. If it's if that cotton is in the mattress, USDA is not paying attention.

Lisa Beres

Yeah. Okay. Good to know that hope that clarifies.

Ron Beres

Or you can say it was sourced from organic cotton, right?

Barry A. Cik

So, there are certifications and let's talk about that. But these certifications are not USDA certification. They're voluntary certifications. And I'm happy to explain those.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, let's go through some of those. Because we're going to talk about the materials that you'll typically find in organic, natural, sustainable ecofriendly mattresses would be we go through those Barry. The wool, the latex, the cotton, all of that.

Barry A. Cik

So, the biggest single material I you know, for many of us is the cotton. So, there's cotton fabric, we use cotton, all our all our surface coverings, you know is cotton fabric or is organic cotton fabric. Okay, fabric made from organic cotton, the fill inside is organic cotton, then there's organic wool, then there's organic latex organically thinks is a little bit of a different animal. Because cotton is grown on farm. Wool has grown on a farm latex has not grown on the farm latex is made in a factory. So, the organic certification for latex is a different certification but you can get a quality latex certified. So, you take all these things, you put it together and make a comfortable mattress. And then you have to add other things like steel, but for example with the steel, we make sure that we're not using lead in the steel or mercury or things like that. And then there's other things that we'll use for this or that and the idea is not to use things that are toxic. In other words, we have to meet a standard. Right and the main standard for organic is called God's g o t s, which stands for global organic textile standard. That's the main standard if you want an organic mattress. All right, if it's certified to the GOTS Standard certified the GOTS, then then it's going to be a pretty decent mattress.

Ron Beres

How hard is it to get that certification? Is that a difficult process?

Barry A. Cik

Um, yeah, I mean, you know, you're not making the mattress the way you make typical mattresses. It's a totally different. Totally, you know, so people ask me sometimes organic mattress is your straw in your mattress?

Ron Beres

There was almost was Barry almost was.

Barry A. Cik

What does that mean? organic mattress? Yeah. Okay. So, we have to explain a couple things here. Okay. And believe it or not, and this is not a sales talk whatsoever. I well done organic mattress is more comfortable than a typical mattress. Oh, you're comfortable? Yeah. explain to you why. Okay. So first, there's the fact that you're not buying all these chemicals. That's number one. But in addition to that, there's a big difference in terms of comfort between something that's petroleum based and something that's natural. For example, I'm wearing a cotton shirt. Okay, so I'm not wearing a polyester shirt. Why are white cotton and not polyester? Why do people prefer cotton and not polyester? Because like, yeah, yeah, cotton breeds. polyester makes you hot and sweaty? Yeah. Because polyester is petroleum. Right? So, if you're sleeping on a mattress, and you have a polyester fabric and underneath, it's, you know, polyurethane foam or whatever, you're going to get hot and sweaty, you know, when you walk into a typical mattress store. They're going to, they're going to tell you about all the cooling gel. Everybody's saying�What's that all about? They're adding these chemicals called cooling gels, in order to bring the temperature down. So, you're not so hot and sweaty, if you're sleeping on an organic mattress, you don't need cooling gels, you're not going to get hot and sweaty to begin with. Yeah, so an organic mattress Well done, is going to actually be more comfortable than a typical mattress.

Lisa Beres

Yeah. And for listeners who are hearing this for the first time, latex, so natural latex is derived from the rubber tree, right? It's the white SAP that we see in the, you know, come out of the leaf if you if you pull a leaf off a rubber tree and squirt it that white substance is extracted and then manufactured correct to create the foam. Berry, you can chime in on that, but maybe tell us a little bit about that and why that's so much better.

Barry A. Cik

Yeah, so it's made from a natural material that comes out of a tree, just like maple syrup. Yeah, comes out of a tree, you know, the SAP, the same thing with latex. Now, prior to World War Two, all the latex on the market was real latex. It was natural. But since World War Two and forward, most latex is really petroleum. It's really not latex. It's all synthetic. Okay. So, we are one of the few companies that have gone back to the original latex that came out of a tree. And the latex is it's a natural product. It's a relatively natural product, not made with all those synthetic chemicals. And it makes it it's very comfortable. You know, without all the chemicals it's and then you have a certification that that says yes, this is natural.

Lisa Beres

Okay, so this is an area people can get greenwashed. Right, or they think they're buying a healthy mattress. And the manufacturer is telling them it's latex, but it's actually not latex. So, are they going to be getting a lot of VOC�s from that?

Barry A. Cik

Absolutely. Because it's mostly petroleum. It's most of our time, standards that are accepted by GOTS. One is called GOLS, global organic latex standard. The other one is the Rainforest Alliance, standard FSC. Both of those standards are accepted by GOTS and both of those are, if they are used in an organic mattress, then that's good.

Lisa Beres

Okay, that is very good to know. And you guys also I know Naturepedic also has the GREENGUARD certification, which is a sort of vacation for anyone who's curious on the off gassing of chemicals. So, they have to go through stringent tests to receive that certification, which goes for a lot of different products, not just mattresses. But that's a great one to look out for. Right?

Barry A. Cik

So, there's the GREENGUARD certification. It doesn't cover everything. But I'll give you an example of what it does not cover. Okay? They don't test vinyl. They don't test phthalates in vinyl. Okay, so if you have a baby mattress, this applies to baby matches is not to adult, you have a baby mattress, and you have vinyl on the surface. And its off-gassing phthalates, the GREENGUARD will not test for that. So, know that there's this, this is a whole different topic. Not all the certifications on the market are perfect.

Lisa Beres

You almost need like, it's like you're craving a cake, right? It's a recipe and you've got to get all the great ingredients together to make this perfect cake, in this case, a mattress. And instead of having one certification at the end, it's like all the ingredients need their own certification,

Barry A. Cik

Sort of. Greengard is owned by ul underwriter�s laboratory, they have another certification for formaldehyde. So of course, we're formaldehyde free.

Lisa Beres

So, there�s a separate certification, then you need a separate certification?

Barry A. Cik

Well, you don't need it. But if they offer it without getting into too much detail there, there are several, there are many certifications, and some are better than others. And some do this and some do that and it becomes to be honest with you. For a typical person, there's no way to figure out, right?

Lisa Beres

I mean, we've been doing this a long time, and I'm already learning a lot. It's like crazy. Yeah, you can see how the average consumer easily gets greenwashed.

Ron Beres

Well, there's been so many certifications and things that you mentioned. And, you know, we're familiar with Naturepedic. And I know there's so many wonderful things about the brand. But from your perspective, can you tell our listeners, what really makes you stand out from the rest?

Barry A. Cik

Sure. So, if I'm going to, I'm going to sort of sort of shock you a little bit. Let's not focus on organic, let's focus on comfort. Okay, okay. And let me explain it from the perspective of comfort because when you go to buy a mattress, if it's not, at least as comfortable as everything else, you're not buying it, I learned that lesson from a health food store. I was talking to the owner of a health food store, and there's all these organic candy bars, you know, the front and, and the point was, you know what, sometimes you get one of those candy bars and you bite into it. And you go, you know, I'm sorry, but I need my Hershey's chocolate, I'm sorry. Okay, I gotta have that Hershey's chocolate. But the point is that if it's not comfortable, then you're not going to sell that matches, right? You got to make it comfortable. So, we're changing the definition of comfort. So, here's how we look at comfort. Comfort number one means no toxic chemicals. Okay? That's the first definition of comfort. That's just one definition of comfort is no toxic chemicals. It's got to work for your immune system. Alright. But the second definition of comfort has language is what we just talked about a minute ago. And that is it has to be comfortable and you're not going to get hot and sweaty. So, you've got to design that mattress. So that you're there's nothing there that's going to make you hot and sweaty and we do, okay, and, and we're way ahead of everybody else. And then we take it a third step we go even further. And that is when you're looking at a mattress. Why can't you look under the hood? Okay, nobody can nobody can nobody knows what's inside that mattress. Okay, so what are they really putting in there that they're not telling you? Okay, so we decided for most of our adult products, not all of them, but most of them. Certainly, the more expensive ones. We put a zipper along the side of the mattress, so you can unzip the top and flip up the top and see everything that's inside. And then if you can see everything inside, let's take it to the next step. Why don't we give you the consumer the customer? Why don't we give you the right to choose the firmness that you want most mattresses you take it or leave it? It is good as well with our latex, we have soft latex, we have medium latex, we have firm latex with our coils, we have a plush coil we have a firm coil. So, what would you like to sleep on? Would you prefer to sleep on jello will give you jello?

Lisa Beres

Isn't there a company that uses hay, Hastings? Well, and also Barry, thank you for breaking that down. That's amazing. Yeah, cuz you don't have anything to hide. So, you're not afraid to show the consumer what�s in there.

Barry A. Cik

So, let me just explain that you can you can order whatever firmness you want. Okay, anywhere on the scale. So, we make the mattress more comfortable. Even if you don't like even if you don't care about chemicals. You know, we'll still you still want our mattress because it's more comfortable. Yeah, great. So, you know, there's the toxicity, there's the heat, the hot and sweaty feeling that you don't want. And then there's just the ability to get whatever firmness you want. There's some people want to talk. There are some people that want to really firm, and we can do all of those in an organic manner.

Lisa Beres

What's the most popular just out of curiosity? What's the most common that people like? Medium?

Barry A. Cik

Yeah, you know, a medium, a medium. You know, for example, on the west coast, we get a lot of people from Asia, and they want to sleep on concrete. Oh, really? Yeah. They want to really, really for other people wanted as much as possible.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, we definitely all have our person personal preferences. So, tell us just to switch gears a little bit, what is a modular mattress? What does that mean?

Barry A. Cik

Oh, that's what I was just talking about where and where you can build your own mattress.

Lisa Beres

Okay, build your own, like build a bear workshop, but it's built with Barry.

Barry A. Cik

So basically, we give you the exterior and casing, okay. And then we'll give you that. It�s typical what we call an EOS Classic, you'll have a layer of latex over a layer of coils. So, you pick your layers, soft, medium, firm, you pick your coils, you know the plush, or, but then it gets even better. You have 90 days to change. Take your house, after you have in your house. Wow. If you within 90 days, if you say you know what, I may have liked it this way in the showroom, but I want a softer or I want a firmer I want whatever, let's just stop at the top. I'd rather firmer on the top or whatever.

Lisa Beres

That's incredible.

Barry A. Cik

Go we will exchange whatever layers need to be exchanged at no cost. Okay, no cost. So that is within 90 days, you're going to have the most perfect feel. And yeah,

Lisa Beres

Because it does take time to tell in a showroom.

Barry A. Cik

10 minutes in the showroom doesn't always give you the best. Yes. But then, you know, it gets even better for two reasons. One reason is that, let's say five years later, you want to change the field of the mattress. You don't have to throw out the mattress and get a home, you can just unzip it. And we'll help you of course, and we'll just you'll have to pay for a component, you have to pay for one component. Wow. You know, and now there's even another reason which is better than all the other reasons. And guess what, if you're sleeping on a mattress, why do you have to put up with what your partner wants?

Lisa Beres

Yeah, exactly. Why does your partner have to put up with that? A lot of marriages can be saved by this mattress.

Barry A. Cik

So, each side of the mattress can have a totally different feel. So, you want your partner picks what he or she wants. And like you said, once again, when you walk through the door to your home, you know, where are you spending most of the time, you're spending most on a mattress? You might as well enjoy it.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, it's an investment in your health. I always tell people that people Oh, it's so expensive. Yeah, but it's an investment in your health. And when you look at the life of the mattress, it's not expensive. And now what you're saying this upcycling sort of concept of now as a consumer, I would pull out the layer and then you guys would send me a new layer and I'd put it in and then zip it.

Barry A. Cik

That's right.

Lisa Beres

Oh, that's very, very cool. good for the environment, good for your health. Good for your changing needs because you might like soft at one point and then later decide you want it firmer, like you said. That's right. And I don't know any couple that has the exact same preferences. So, having that split is incredible. And you guys I want to do a little shout out Barry because you have retail stores. A lot of online mattress companies. So, you're really just taking a job when you order online but you have retail stores across the nation where you can go in.

Barry A. Cik

We have somewhere close to 20 retail stores that are that are Naturepedic only. Okay, because Naturepedic gallery stores across the country. And then of course we're sold by regular retailers as well. Okay, so, you know, there's actually a hundred of stores that you can walk into. Wow. And, and, and take a look at a n=Naturepedic mattress.

Lisa Beres

Okay, that's good to know. Major stores, like give us an example.

Barry A. Cik

I don't know, Pottery Barn.

Lisa Beres

Pottery Barn?

Barry A. Cik

Oh, you know, there's all kinds of stores now guys, Restoration Hardware. Macy�s is carrying our mattresses now. Whatever. Yeah.

Lisa Beres

Okay. That's excellent. Excellent, excellent. So, you have no excuse not to be sleeping healthier and better.

Ron Beres

A bear? We're going to go over this in another show with you. But if you can answer this, I'm curious to know. So why do mattresses contain flame retardant chemicals in the first place? You know, we didn't really talk about this in detail. Can you give us a brief teaser for our next show with you?

Barry A. Cik

Yeah, because most mattresses are highly flammable. If the mattress is filled with petroleum-based materials, that's a very flammable mattress now without trying to just scare everybody. In your grandparent�s days, when there was a fire in the house, you yell, then you scream, then you got everybody out of bed and grand down the steps and you got out of the house. Today, more times than not, they're all dead, everybody's dead. And you'll see them whether it's on TV, and the smoke is halfway up to the sky. Okay, well, what what's going on? What's going on is that today, it's all polyurethane foam and highly flammable materials. Okay. So that's why they have to do it. Now to be a little bit more precise. In the 70s, when polyurethane foam became the dominant filling material, people were smoking, it smoking was a lot more prevalent back then. And some people would smoke, and then they'd fall asleep and the cigarette would drop down, ignite the mattress, and boom, you know, a couple minutes later, they're dead. All right. So, the government there was a big outcry in the 70s and the government made a made a regulation that mattresses have to meet a certain flammability standard. And that and that's what and then then there was a second regulation later on. And so, the people, the people making mattresses, they're not trying to hurt anybody. That's not the point. But if they're using polyurethane foam, they have no choice. In order to pass the test. They have to add flame retardant chemicals. And that's what they're doing. Right. We don't use any flame retardant chemicals whatsoever. We don't need flame returns.

Lisa Beres

You don't need them because we don't need it, the wool is naturally flame retardant. Right?

Barry A. Cik

Yes, of course, of course.

Lisa Beres

So, for listeners who don't know that, so what Barry's saying is these chemicals like chlorinated Tris and these polybrominated chemicals and all of these other hormone disrupting and very toxic chemicals to our body, but also to that planet are found in your traditional conventional mattress, whereas when you buy an organic mattress, a natural green safe you wool is typically but there are even other materials that are natural, that are safer that meet the flammability standards without having to expose you to more toxic chemicals. That's so huge. Which brings me to my next question. What would you say is the most dangerous toxin found in most mattresses? conventional mattresses to children, would you say it's the flame retardants?

Barry A. Cik

Um, frankly, if you're talking about a crib mattress, the most dangerous chemical is just the one right at the surface, the salads that are coming right out of the vinyl. Because that's, that's coming right out of the vinyl. Right into the breathing space of the baby. Yeah, that's going to be the singular most dangerous item. It let's talk about a baby mattress for a minute. Yeah. Okay. So, in a baby mattress, there's a separate issue and that issue is hygiene. All right. With a baby, you have urine, you have bigger messes, you have drool, you have vomit, you have spilled milk, you know, whatever.

Lisa Beres

Birth control for anyone on the fence about getting pregnant.

Barry A. Cik

You know, how do you deal with the hygiene, all this stuff? If you don't, if you don't waterproof the mattress, it's all going to suck into the mattress. The baby turns over and is breathing into this. You're creating an excuse me for being a little bit rough. But you're creating a cesspool. Yeah. And then the baby's going to breathe into the cesspool. Are you kidding? Yeah. Okay. So, if the matches are not waterproof, that's the problem you have. So, then you got it. So then. So then, you know, if you're smart, you're going to waterproof the matches, but then you have a different question. What do you waterproof it with? Okay, so if you're waterproofing with vinyl, okay, you can clean it, you solve that problem. But now the baby's bringing the valley it's coming out of the mine.

Lisa Beres

All right, especially for their developing body. Exactly.

Barry A. Cik

And if you don't want to use vinyl, so then maybe you're going to use you know, some other chemicals. Okay, some perfluorinated compounds, PFC�s, whatever, you know that that's also toxic. Okay, so we, we are the only ones who came up with a better solution. We use a polyethylene made from sugarcane, so we can waterproof it keeps the mattress hygienic. And at the same time, protect the baby from all these toxic chemicals.

Lisa Beres

So, it's your own patent. Do you have a patent on that? Is that? Yes, we do. You do? Okay, so, a mom is going out shopping for a natural healthy mattress, and they don't go to nature. Barry, what are they using? Are they using vinyl? Even though the mattress is considered organic or are healthy? The are they not putting a waterproofing on it?

Barry A. Cik

They're not putting waterproofing at all. So okay. So, there's, you know, they're organic, but it's not very hygienic.

Lisa Beres

It�s not hygienic, and then maybe they're also getting a waterproof cover, which is the off-gas chemicals. Okay.

Ron Beres

An off the cuff question for you, Barry. So, if you can make one big environmental change, and the next year, what would you do? What would it be?

Barry A. Cik

Alright, so you're going to be sorry that you asked that question.

Barry A. Cik

There's only one way to solve. We're not talking about mattresses. Now we're talking about the big picture. Yeah, but only one way to solve the problem that we all have. And we all have this problem. Okay, the problem that we're being overrun by toxic chemicals, and there's no way to stop it. The problem is that we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty. Well, when it comes to chemicals, I do not agree. You are guilty until proven innocent. The law should be you cannot make a chemical unless and until you prove that it's safe. And there needs to be a standard, the EPA or whoever needs to create a good, healthy standard. And it can be a different standard for baby crib, for example, versus something else. That's fine. Yeah, it needs to be a standard. And if you're in the business of making chemicals, you can't just make what you want. And we'll see if the government catches up with you. 20 years later, yeah. Forget that. Yeah, you know, you're guilty until proven now that sounds very harsh. You're guilty until proven innocent. But there is no other way to solve that problem.

Lisa Beres

Amen. I think that was so well said, I think so many of the health issues that we face, as a society and these health issues aren't getting better people think, oh, we have so much advancement and you know, pharma, pharmacology and all of this, the pharmaceutical industry, this, this, this, but people are getting sicker. And it's because you know, we have toxic body burdens. And I love how you talk about, you know, our planet has a toxic body burden. our oceans are having a toxic body burden, our air, our water, our even the food that we're eating. So, if we don't get to the root of the problem, and stop trying to treat things once it's too late. On the other side, once someone has cancer once someone has infertility and ADHD and all these learning disorders and things that are happening, and you know, we talked today about so many chemicals linked to hormonal problems, and a lot of people don't think about that, but a hormone your hormonal system is your energy, your weight, your mood, your temperature, your reproductive, all of that. So, in the end, all of those elements are skyrocketing. So that was a great place to end this Mary. I love what you said I let's all do something do our part to make to change that and I think we change that by supporting companies like Naturepedic, making choices with our dollar shopping with our dollars. Our voices are everything. manufacturers will respond to our demands.

Ron Beres

Thank you so much Barry and Barry, for sharing your wisdom, your passion with our audience. Friends. Run, don't walk over Naturepedic to shop for a certified organic mattress. And don't forget to use RONANDLISA15 to save 15% on the healthiest bedding for the whole family. So that's Naturepedic got this www.Naturepedic.com and head over to wwwRonandLisa.com for a chance to win a mattress from Naturepedic.

Lisa Beres

Woo, you don't want to miss that guys. Thank you again, Barry.

Barry A. Cik

You are very welcome. And thank you.

Lisa Beres

We'll see you next week. Stay tuned for the next episode with Barry because we're going to get hot and heavy with flame retardants you don't want to miss it. Bye.

Narrator

This episode of the healthy home hacks podcast has ended. But be sure to subscribe for more healthy living strategies and tactics to help you create the healthy home you always dreamed of. And don't forget to rate and review so we can continue to bring you the best content. See you on the next episode.