33: The Ugly Truth About Nonstick & PFAS Chemicals

Narrator

How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts. listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy, you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, Baubiologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados. Ron and Lisa Beres.

Lisa Beres

This episode of healthy home hats is brought to you by nature PD. Are you ready to enjoy a healthier nontoxic sleep? Join the organic mattress revolution and rest easier on a certified organic mattress proudly crafted in the USA without petrochemicals, flame retardants polyurethane foam and other toxic chemical materials. Visit Naturepedic.com and get ready to snooze in the lap of organic luxury. And friends. Don't forget to use code RonandLisa15. That's RonandLisa15 to save 15% on new mattresses for the whole family.

Ron Beres

Hi friends and welcome to today's show. Question. Have you gotten unstuck on nonstick yet? If you follow us at Ronald Easter calm then you are well aware of the dangers of the multibillion-dollar class of chemicals used to make products stain, grease and water resistance. You'll find these days in coatings on carpets and clothing in microwave popcorn bags and fast food wrappers. Even on waterproof and stain repellent clothing. Think your swim suit, tennis shoes, and yes, even your Apple Watch. I often hear people refer to them as Teflon chemicals. But today, we're going to break down exactly what he asked as chemicals are and how you and your family are exposed and the health implications associated with these.

Lisa Beres

And we have a very special guest, a senior scientist from the Environmental Working Group, Tasha Stoiber Oh, and if you're not familiar with the absolutely fantastic and groundbreaking work of EWG, climb out from under that toxic rock and get familiar because EWG�s team of scientists, policy experts, lawyers and communications and data experts have been providing education for over 30 years to help you and your loved ones live better through breakthrough research and reforming our nation's broken chemical safety laws. One toxin at a time. They're basically the Justice League for health and the environment.

Ron Beres

Yes, Lisa. And Tasha is one of those super heroes. She earned a Ph.D. in environmental chemistry and technology at the University of Wisconsin, and a BS in biology and Environmental Engineering at Michigan Technological University. And today, Tasha works to better understand the connections between exposure to chemicals and public health. She researches contaminants in water, indoor air pollution, and chemicals and consumer products. Before joining EWG, Tasha worked as an environmental engineer, she pursued postdoctoral study in the ecotoxicology of nanoparticles at the University of California Davis and the US Geological Survey.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Thank you so much, Ron. And Lisa. I don't think I've ever been called a superhero before.

Ron Beres

You�re so modest.

Lisa Beres

So earned that. Get your cape out. And guys, we have such a special show in store for you today. So, Tasha, I know everyone's chomping at the bit to find out about these chemicals. So, let's dive right in. Our listeners are familiar with PFC�s, perfluorinated chemicals that are widely used to make water- grease- and stain-repellent coatings. But I know the EPA is now trying to use PFAS rather than PFC�s to describe the chemicals in this group. Can you explain this and tell our listeners what PFAS is?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Sure, a big part of understanding this problem is understanding just what these chemicals are. And I think people are becoming more educated and more aware of where you can find these chemicals and what the health dangers are. Per- and perfluoro-alkyl substances or PFAS for short, includes this huge family of chemicals and PFC�s used to be what they were referred to formerly. But now this huge family of chemicals is known as PFAS. As you mentioned in the introduction, a lot of people might be familiar with the terms Teflon, or Scotch guard. And these are the names associated with these stain resistant coatings that are found in a lot of your different products. What's happening is some of the most egregious of this huge family of chemicals, they're being phased out. What companies are doing is actually using really similar chemicals to replace them. But what we're finding is that these replacement chemicals have the same health harms associated with the original chemicals. That's the issue that's happening right now.

Lisa Beres

Right? And that just brings me to BPA, Bisphenol A, right? We saw the same thing happen with that when they started replacing everyone's touting BPA-free, but they were using sometimes more harmful chemicals in place of it, correct?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

That's absolutely correct. And that's what we call regrettable substitutions. And that's why we want to push for looking at all of these chemicals, because there's so many different ones, there's actually 1000s of these chemicals out there are hundreds that we know about that the EPA has tracked that are used in consumer products, we don't want to just be looking at one at a time and studying one at a time because that's going to take way too long. So, we want to look at this whole family of chemicals. What ties them together as that they have these similar structures and they have these really strong carbon and fluorine bonds. That's what gives them the properties like being stain resistant, oil resistant greaseproof and whatnot. These same properties that make them ideal for these uses is what is related to them being so harmful. It's also related to their persistence in the environment because of these really strong bonds. They don't really break down.

Ron Beres

How are humans exposed to these PFA s chemicals?

Lisa Beres

Should we be calling them PFAS or P F A S or is it interchangeable?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

You can call them PFAS? That's easy to remember. Okay. Okay. Or you can call them Per- and perfluoro-alkyl substances.

Lisa Beres

I'm proud of myself for saying per fluorinated chemicals, I'm going to leave it at that.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

I got that's great.

Ron Beres

How are humans exposed, Tasha, to PFAS chemicals?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Right? That's a really good question. And that question can be answered by thinking about, it's going to be different for where you live, what job you have, who you are, what your ages, all of those things are going to affect how you're exposed. For a small child, or a baby or an infant that's crawling around on the floor spending a lot of time playing there, the carpet, really the dust that comes off of a stained treated carpet, that's going to be one of the primary exposure routes for someone that's that small. For other people, food might be an important exposure as well p FOS build up, they accumulate in our bodies, and they also accumulate in fish and seafood. food can be an important exposure route as well. And p FOSS Of course, they're also used in food packaging, pizza boxes, popcorn bags, things like that. That's first right fast food wrappers. Absolutely. We did a study on flooring and fast food wrappers. And also, those compostable balls which are supposed to be good for the environment the molded fiber bowls, they also can contain p FOSS, p FOSS from that food packaging can also get into your food. That's an exposure route of concern. And we're also concerned about drinking water of course and this is going to be important if you live in an area that has highly contaminated drinking water that's going to be a significant exposure area.

Lisa Beres

To explain to our listeners, the municipal water companies aren't testing for that correct. When your city tells you, Hey, your water safe. Is that a chemical that's even being tested for?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

That's another really good question and a lot is happening in the last couple of years regarding that. It is an unregulated contaminant. The EPA did test for it as part of their unregulated contaminant monitoring program a couple of years ago, in 2013, and 2015, they did test for it then. And they are planning to test for it in an upcoming round of that program, as well as part of the very slow development of a possible federal standard, but just for two types of people. So, this is moving very slowly. People that it's in the drinking water, and we're only testing for it after the fact. So, it's a bit backwards. States have been doing a lot more. That has been happening on the federal level, there are standards in some states, and some states have been doing a lot more of their own testing. In places like New Jersey and Michigan, they have been testing for it more often. But on those state level, it's not a required test, outside of that monitoring program.

Lisa Beres

Wow, I mean, water is just really an under looked way that we get so many chemical exposures, and we filter filter filter, we just can't stress that enough. And even I say this a lot on the podcast, because it's an overlooked way people get the chemicals from water is through ice cubes. I mean, I think they filter their water and then they go out, they get iced tea or iced coffees or drink lemonade, and they don't realize that they're getting tap water, chemicals, all those chemicals that would come in there. our listeners might be familiar with some of the brands that contain pee fast. You mentioned I think Teflon and Scotchguard, or Stainmaster, Polartec, and GoreTex. But even the PTFE, we see that on when we go to buy cookware, it'll say hey, this cookware does not contain PTFE, hopefully, but it's also in dental floss. But what would you say is the biggest source of exposure, you mentioned dust and water and the cookware and the packaging? What would you say is the number one way people get this in their body?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Again, it'll depend if you have a really contaminated source of drinking water. If you're living in those areas, drinking water can be a significant source of contamination for people that live near pee FOSS is used in a number of these consumer products. But it can also contaminate drinking water from the use of a triple f foam is a type of firefighting foam that has been used at airports and military sites for fire training, this use has led to a lot of drinking water contamination around the US. And so, if you're living near one of those sites, your drinking water can be really highly contaminated. Or if you're near another type of industrial release site, or something like that drinking water can be a significant source of contamination, or outside of that. Food can also be a significant source of PFAS.

Lisa Beres

When you're using a cookware with PTFE, is that breaking down in the food while it's cooking? Or is that only when it's in a gas form? Or is it only when the cookware chips and particles get into the food?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

That's a good question. So, when we think about PFAS and cookware, it's good to think about the whole lifecycle of that product. The biggest problem there comes from the production of the chemicals that go into the cookware and that's going to be polluting the environment. And that's going to be polluting people and your drinking water for decades to come. The cookware now it's a bit misleading, because you could be shopping for a pan and the label says PFOA free however it could contain another type of PFAS.

Lisa Beres

Ah, you see it all the time like that's greenwashing at its finest, right? Just like we're talking about with Bisphenol A and what's that awesome documentary that just came out with Mark Ruffalo. Oh, Dark Waters. So, listeners. Oh, man, that's a great, great film. And there's another one the devil�

Tasha Stoiber

The Devil We Know.

Lisa Beres

Similar story right about the Teflon contamination from DuPont in Ohio and the Ohio River and how it affected the cows and ultimately the people in the area. Super, super good. That'll dive deep into what we're not going to have time to get into today.

Ron Beres

Absolutely. Absolutely. Hey, Tasha, you know, you mentioned these chemicals are notoriously persistent in the environment and in the human body and some have been linked to serious health effects. What are the health hazards from pee fast exposure? And who's the most vulnerable?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Right? That's a great question. Again, the health hazards are going to range quite a bit depending on your exposure that could range from something that you yourself might not notice to actually life changing health impacts or people that have been really highly exposed. Either through working in an industry where they're exposed or living near a really contaminated site, the health effects, basically, p FOSS can affect nearly every major organ in your body. And the health effects range from impacts hormones, it can have effects on fertility, and low birth weight, high cholesterol, it can impact your liver. Fats have been linked to things like testicular cancer and kidney cancer. And also, it can harm your immune system. And the immune system is one of the most I would say, vulnerable parts of your body because p boss at these extremely low levels can impact your immune system. And it can do things like reduce the number of antibodies that your body makes. And it can also reduce your body's response. If you get a vaccine. That's another really timely thing to think about right now, too. And it can do this at levels that we're already seeing in people's bodies right now.

Lisa Beres

Wow. Children, I mean, for sure, I would think would be the most vulnerable. And it's just so crazy. When you said it doesn't take a whole lot. I think in the film, they did talk about women that worked at the plant. There was a high rate of miscarriages, correct? If I remember that, right. The women had miscarriages.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Yeah, it can have effect on low birth weight, certainly fertility and development.

Lisa Beres

What percentage of Americans would you say have this chemical the PFS chemicals in their blood right now? And is there anything we can do to detox it out of our body?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

This is a really startling realization as well. None of us are really safe from this chemical. Nearly all of us have this chemical in our bodies, the CDC has looked at the blood of Americans and found this chemical in nearly everyone.

Lisa Beres

Wow. Our producer just said he loves his cast iron and his stainless-steel pans, why don't more people get it? cast iron is heavy, I dropped on my foot at the store once. And I would agree. We love our stainless-steel pans. I mean, you got to scrub a little harder, you got to get a little elbow grease, but like it's just not worth, that the things that you can change, right?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

The things that are very obvious that you're getting exposure, we detox that out of our body, you can't really detox it out of your body per se. I mean, if you reduce your exposure, these chemicals do accumulate in your body and they stay there for a while. But what you can do that will have a significant impact is make better choices. Like you mentioned before filtering your drinking water is really important. First researching your drinking water to find out if your tap water is contaminated is really important.

Lisa Beres

Listeners go to the EWG Tap Water Database because like we talked about, we might not get that from our city water report. So where should we go? To find out?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Right, you can check EWG�s Tap Water Database, it's www.EWG.org/tapwater, any available testing from your utility, you'll be able to check there. And we have conducted several studies of sampling on our own. And we have results of those reports on our website as well. But you can also check those and you can also check out the interactive map that lists sources PFAS contamination either industrial sites, military sites, things like that. And you can kind of check out in your area to see if there's a source of pollution there that you might be concerned about.

Lisa Beres

Okay, that's great.

Ron Beres

We will actually post that in the show notes to where they can find the steps to avoid PFAS chemicals. For our listeners, what are some steps maybe now that they can do to eliminate exposure and their daily lives?

Lisa Beres

In addition to filtering the water, if you could answer this to what filtration is it? Only reverse osmosis that will take that out. I'm guessing bravas the carbon wouldn't.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Reverse osmosis filters are going to be the most effective way to remove PFAS from your drinking water. But the downside there is that they're quite expensive. Carbon filters will also remove PFAS, they're a little bit less expensive, but you do have to change them out and you have to remember to change them. You can check with your filter company and ask them what tests they have done. There's the certification for filters right now. I believe it only covers PFAS so you can contact the filter company and ask what else they've tested. But reverse osmosis filters are good and activated carbon filters are also good as long as you remember to change them when they're supposed to be chained.

Lisa Beres

Okay, would a simple Brita pitcher be effective enough to filter? They're not large amounts of carbon, are they?

Ron Beres

Yeah, those are carbon filters. The percentage is not as high, right? It's maybe like 50% versus maybe getting 90 plus percent with a reverse osmosis filter.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

A Brita filter isn't going to be as effective as some other types of carbon filters. That's kind of the entry point. I can't speak off my head. But there are filters that are going to be more effective.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, kind of like a lot of things you get what you pay for with filtration. Our listeners have heard this, I'm sure as I have. They're often referred to as forever chemicals. Can you touch upon why they got that name?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

They're called forever chemicals, because they don't really break down in the environment. Once they're out there, they can persist literally for decades for ages. And we don't really have good disposal methods for these chemicals as well. So, once you toss it in a landfill or something like that, it doesn't really break down. It just kind of cycles through the environment. And it's going to persist for a really long time. That's why they're called forever chemicals. And it can also be called everywhere chemicals, because you can find them everywhere as well.

Lisa Beres

It's so scary for the future generation that we've like, made such a mess. Oh, my goodness. That's crazy.

Ron Beres

Do you know any studies offhand that have been done that are associated with health dangers?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Absolutely. I can talk about a few. I would say one of the landmark studies that resulted following the legal settlement or the legal case in West Virginia, that ca panel did a large medical monitoring study, and they found evidence of serious health harms that was the testicular cancer, kidney cancer, increased cholesterol, ulcerative colitis, and other thyroid effects related to pee fella. And you know, what we've been finding since then, is just the more we study these chemicals, the more health effects really that we find. And the EPA has also done another toxicological assessment on some of the replacement chemicals that are supposed to be replacing PFOA and the long chain PFAS chemicals. And what they found studying Gen X and PFAS was similar health harms as well.

Lisa Beres

Wow. It's just like going back to what grandma used to use for cleaning products. And so many of the things that are causing so much havoc on our bodies, and our planet, really goes back to basics, a lot of these things that are making our life so convenient, even cell phones and radiation from that, and all of these things are causing so much harm to ourselves and our planet.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

That's a good point. And we need to ask, do we actually need these chemicals? And yeah, the case is, in a lot of these products is that we really don't. And that's what's going to be key to solving a lot of these problems is basically turning off the path. You know, we don't need these chemicals. There's a lot of different alternatives.

Lisa Beres

Right? It's like, what's the price of a stain costing us? Right? What's the price of a little elbow grease costing us? I mean, we are trading conveniences for this. That's really interesting. Absolutely. Yeah. Now you mentioned that it's in dust. Is this chemical semi-volatile? Can it get airborne in the dust? Like can we actually inhale the dust that has the PFAS chemicals attached to it like we can with flame retardants?

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

That's exactly right. The problem here is that these chemicals they don't stay in the products is that their shed from the products, they come out of the products and they're in dust as a reservoir, all different types of chemicals and consumer products. And so, it is really important for you to no one likes to hear this, but it is really good to be backing frequently to dusting.

Lisa Beres

With an airtight vacuum don't recirculate those chemicals back in the air.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Absolutely. So, it is important to get rid of that as much as you can. Because you do inhale it. It's on your hands.

Lisa Beres

Yeah, kids are looking their fingers. The pets are getting that. I know you guys did a spectacular study years ago called Polluted Pets, about the high level of toxins that pets have more so than humans because they are on the carpet and the floor and their water and their food and all of the things that they're getting exposed to as well. It's pretty profound if anyone's never seen that. It's a really great study. This was really great. There's so much more we could talk about, but I know we are crunched for time today. If you guys head on over to run at least the.com forward slash podcast. We will have all the links in the show notes including an EWG guide with steps to avoid PFAS chemicals in your daily life. Some of the things we didn't have time to talk about today.

Ron Beres

Absolutely. Thank you, Tasha. This was like incredible. And we appreciate you being on our show.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Thank you so much. It's so important to get the message out about this and to get people thinking about what can I do about this, both the individual level and at the community level.

Lisa Beres

If you have some of the issues that Tasha talked about today, hormone imbalances, thyroid issues, infertility, miscarriages, immune system, a lot of people don't take the time to associate that to a chemical in their water. They think, Oh, it's got to be genetic. It's got to be something that was passed down. You can start changing your life today by making healthy steps. And thank you again, Tasha, thank you beautiful friends. We hope you enjoyed this info-packed show. And hearing up close and personal from one of the top senior scientists at EWG. Be sure to visit them to learn more at ww.ewg.org and for all the links we discussed today head to www.RonandLisa.com/Podcast and download the free guide.

Ron Beres

See you next week. Thank you, everyone. Take care.

Unknown Speaker

Bye, everyone. Bye, Tasha.

Tasha Stoiber, Ph.D.

Thank you.

Narrator

This episode of the healthy home hacks podcast has ended. But be sure to subscribe for more healthy living strategies and tactics to help you create the healthy home you always dreamed of. And don't forget to rate and review so we can continue to bring you the best content. See you on the next episode.