121 | Ingredient Intel: Decoding the New Food Dye Ban

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(00:46) Bow biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans, and avocado afficionados, Ron and Lisa Baris. Hey there, food lovers and industry watchers. Welcome back to Clean Label Chronicles. I'm Ron and something big is happening in the food world that's going to change what's on your grocery store shelves forever. And I'm Lisa. When giants like Craft Hind, General Mills, and now Nestle all announced they're ditching artificial dyes, this isn't just a trend. It's a seismic shift that's about to ripple through every aisle of your supermarket.

(01:21) Exactly. We're talking about a complete overhaul of how products are formulated, labeled, and manufactured. The domino effect is going to be massive, which is why we brought in the director of product label and ingredient reviews for registar corp, a regulatory compliance powerhouse, working with clients in over 190 countries.

(01:46) She's got the inside scoop on what this means from manufacturing and boardrooms to your plate and your health. We're diving deep into how this shift will impact everything from your morning cereal to your skincare routine to your pet's food. Plus, she'll reveal what food companies are scrambling to figure out behind closed doors right now.

(02:11) So whether you're a conscious consumer, a business owner trying to navigate these changes, or just someone who is passionate about keeping your family healthy, you are in the right place, and you are in for a treat. Yes, don't go anywhere. This is about to get real interesting. Our guest today, Anna Bene, holds a BS degree in biology. She has been assisting companies with US FDA regulations since 2009.

(02:35) N as researched thousands of products to determine whether they meet FDA requirements for compliance. Her areas of expertise include product formulation requirements and labeling for cosmetics, over-the-counter drugs, beverages, food, dietary supplements, animal feed, and medical devices. Without further ado, welcome to the show, Anna, and thanks for being with us. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to join you all.

(03:00) I love that you use the term seismic shift because when the news came we do live in California so that our vocabulary I mean it was like my jaw dropped when I heard the announcement. I mean, it really did send a shock wave through the entire industry, you know, that something this monumental was occurring and, you know, we're starting to see more and more buildup, you know, as the months have gone on.

(03:27) And I'm just super excited to be chatting with you all about this today and what it means for consumers, but also for industry as well. Yes, thank you for that. It's such exciting news. We are really thrilled about it and I had been watching the hearings that the food babe, I'm sure you're familiar with her.

(03:44) Are you familiar with the food babe? Oh, I'm afraid I'm not. But Oh, you're not. Oh my gosh. She's been spearheading a lot of these changes for quite some time. Obviously, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. being integral part of all of this. So, I do want to get started and you know, we're so happy you're with us today. So, what are the key labeling changes companies like Nestle and Craft Hinds need to make when removing artificial dyes from their products? So, you know, one of the first thing that popped into my head, you know, when they said Craft Hind was doing this, I thought, "Oh my gosh, they must have

(04:15) thousands of products." And when you have even a small percentage that have, you know, synthetic dyes in them, you know, you're still talking about hundreds of products that they will have to reformulate, you know, which is another monster in and of itself, right? But from the labeling standpoint, you know, you're talking about hundreds of labels that will have to be updated and to reflect the new ingredients that are in the product because of course that is a requirement for the labeling on any food product. And then they're

(04:44) going to have to figure out their logistics to make sure that as those changes occur on the factory floor that those labels are there at exactly the right time and you know get on exactly the right product. So when you're talking about these complicated supply and distribution chains for a company that size Yeah.

(05:02) then you know they're gonna have to have all their ducks in a row because if they company mislabel something then that opens them up to FDA enforcement action. They can you know issue a nasty warning letter to you that's public. You know do they get fined? Are there fines involved for that? Not usually.

(05:20) It's usually kind of public shaming like I live in you know like Colonial Williamsburg you know like the stocks you know. Right. public shaming going on, you know, for these companies, it does a lot of reputational damage and they can force a recall, you know, in certain cases, you know, if they think there's a public health risk or something.

(05:43) So, you know, companies have to get it right and they have to make sure that, you know, their internal communications are such that everything happens at exactly the right time. Yeah. And when is that time? What is the enforced date that they have to comply by? So, you know, the interesting part of this and the part that makes it so, you know, kind of earthshattering to us regulatory folk is that the only true ban is with the red dye number three, you know, that was banned last year under administration.

(06:06) And then there's talk from the current administration about banning two other ones, citrus red number two and orange B that are actually not used that often. Yeah, I haven't even heard of those. That's interesting. One's used in sausage casings and the other one is used to color orange skin and that's it.

(06:24) Okay. So, you know, the other reason why this is just so unbelievably monumental is that this is voluntary. They are they are not moving the approval. They're asking because got to understand like rule making takes forever. Forever, right? Yeah. Years long.

(06:45) And they'll pass it and then they'll be like in five years from now, you know, they're required, right? So even to pass it, they have to propose it and then wait for public comment and then issue the final rule. So it's a long drawn out process. That's why we're all so shocked, you know, wow, this is amazing because they're asking for, you know, voluntary phase of these.

(07:03) So they'll still be on the books, but it sounds like all of these major companies are just willfully and willingly going to go ahead and remove them, which I think is concerned about the synthetic colors is really kind of heartening, you know. Yeah, that's great. kind of like the PAS and the non-stick cookware. That was a voluntary removal, right? And I Yeah.

(07:23) And do you know off hand like for the manufacturers, do they typically purchase a quarter's worth, let's say, of labels ahead of time and they have to get through the old product before they issue the new product? Knowing that, too. How long is it? Did you know offh hand if is it a year's worth of product they buy up front? As far as product, I mean, the labels and the bottling, everything they're trying to change. Yeah, they do.

(07:46) You're 100% on point there because they do tend to buy to save costs. You know, they'll buy their labeling in bulk. You know, maybe a quarter's worth, maybe, you know, a half a year's worth depending on how quickly their manufacturing runs are or how much money they have on hand. You know, smaller companies may have to buy in smaller amounts.

(08:02) The crafts of the world probably Yeah. buy like a year's worth at a time. So, yeah, all of that has to be factored in as well. So, they'll likely use all that up. Do you think they'll go through the products that already have the labels ready for and all of that and the products that are already produced? Well, do you think they'll use all those up before they change? That's hard to know. They haven't stated how far along in the reformulation process they are.

(08:27) So, reformulation itself is very, very tricky because it's not just a simple swap of ingredients. So, for something like blue, which is actually a very difficult color to impart on a food product.

(08:46) That's why the FDNC blue everywhere, right? You're trying to replace it with something natural like spirulina extract. If a different chemical makeup, they'll interact with those ingredients in a different way. So, you may have to then reformulate the rest of your recipe or, you know, you have to worry about whether the color is as vibrant or the stability of it.

(09:05) You know, natural colors tend to break down over time more quickly than those synthetic ones that have been cooked up in a lab. So, all of that kind of comes into play. So depending on how far along they are with the reformulation process, you know, they may have, you know, be able to get through that whole all that labeling stockpile before they actually have the manufacturing, you know, producing the proper formulation. Yeah.

(09:28) Isn't it true that a lot of these companies already have different formulations for the European marketplace or the Canadian marketplace? I mean, wouldn't that be kind of an easy lift for them just to copy what they were doing? It might not be the colors, right? It might be not in separate. It can be. So, and actually that was one of the things that also occurred to me that the multinationals, the crafts of the world will have an easier time than the smaller companies that have maybe been overly reliant on the synthetics and we'll have to start the reformulation process from scratch. The one thing though to know is that for all color

(09:55) additives, even the natural ones have to be approved for use by FDA, right? Even fruit juice has a regulation saying that it's approved for, you know, foods as a color additive. So there are lots of natural ones that don't have approval that are used in the EU and Canada. Oh, like curcumin is one and safflower extract is another one.

(10:18) So it won't be the case that automatically their EU formulation can just be shifted over to the US. But you are 100% right that they will have an easier time because they've already been, you know, using these natural dyes in other markets either because they've been restricted in those markets or just those consumers have a greater desire for the natural colors than the US consumers traditionally have. Okay.

(10:42) I think most people would want the natural if they had the option. I mean, I think people weren't given the option in a lot of the mainstream food brands that we think about, right? Yeah. There's a lot more consumer interest in our foods now, I think. So, General Mills 10 years ago tried to do this and after two years they had to revert back to the synthetics. The colors weren't as bright.

(11:04) You know, Americans are like, I want my Froot Loops to look neon, you know, and right to change, right? I like the blue spirulina. We used to go to a place, Nectar Juice Bar. They had a Spirulina vegan ice cream and it was the most gorgeous blue. It's like really bright turquoise. And I was like, "That's from Spirulina." And like the brand Unreal Candy, that's what we hand out at Halloween.

(11:31) It's no artificial flavors, colorings, any of it. They have really beautiful bright pinks. I don't know what they use, but really bright colors for their M&M's. And they're the M&M version. You know, they have their own version, healthier version. Yeah.

(11:48) Are you familiar with that brand, Anna? I am. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. In Virginia. But yeah, whenever we do our ingredient research, you know, we come across the colors that are being used that are natural from like our clients in the EU and in Canada. So, you see a lot of Yeah. the natural colors that can convey that color vibrancy that from vegetables and attract consumers, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. So guys, listeners demand healthy stuff and don't worry if they're neon color.

(12:15) Just Right. Right. At the end of the day, you want to be healthy either. So So Ann, you gave an example. You said the blue artificial dye and how that can affect the ingredient review process. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention about that and some of the challenges of removing these artificial dyes that we should be aware of? Well, you know, from the business standpoint, you know, you we kind of touched on the consumer acceptance part.

(12:37) You know, and consumers say they want natural and then they go and they buy the neon colored cereal. So the companies have to think about their bottom line. Certainly. So certainly you what you just said, Lisa, was just spot on. Consumer demand drives everything. And so if it helps the bottom line for them to have the natural colors, then people should have that on their mental radar.

(12:56) You know, I'm going to look for the products that have the natural colors. From the business standpoint, the other challenge that they face for things like the natural dyes is that, you know, with their supply chains, they have to think about different aspects of sourcing those easy to cook a blue one in a lab, right? To sourcing something from like the newest one, Gardinia Blue, that was just approved this week, I think.

(13:22) You know, got to get a bunch of Gardinas, you know, you know, to generate the amount of dye that food industry uses. So, and they tend to be a little more costly to produce. So, you know, there all these things that I was going to say, will we see price increases in a lot of these products? Would you think? We may. I mean, thankfully, it doesn't take a lot of dye to color a product necessarily, you know, if they're intense enough.

(13:50) So, you know, fingers crossed we won't see like huge spikes, you know, in right the cost of the food or anything like that, you know, but manufacturers are going to have to factor that in, right? hardware calculations for sure. And I'm sure they'll be shouting that from the rooftop on their new labels, I would think. Right. I would think so. So, they're going to want you to know.

(14:07) You would expect industry to take advantage of the marketing that comes with having it, you know, in big bold letters on the front, you know, color source from natural plants or something like that to attract the attention of consumers. Because you're right, as you just said, if I see them side by side on the grocery shelf, I'm going to go with the one that has the natural colors because know what I've heard about the synthetics and you know, studies suggest that they may have adverse effects on children. I may automatically steer to that one. So,

(14:36) right. Right. But hey, we're talking about behavioral disorders, right? Is that the biggie when you're talking about the effects on children? So, you know, some of the studies that are out there suggest, I'm not a clinical researcher, so I can't speak to it, you know, the validity. There's studies out there that suggest that it could affect a subset of kids, especially those that are prone to ADHD or something like that.

(15:01) You know, the FDA, their basic, you know, statement on this is that these were approved after, you know, rigorous scientific review. You know, they're not used at very high levels. You know, they're safe for addition to food. But I think especially those that have concerns, you know, we have kids and we have concerns with very high rates of ADHD and all kinds of behavioral disorders now. I mean, it skyrocketed, you know. Right.

(15:24) Right. I did look at the label of my frosted mini wheats this morning. Were they natural? What does it have there? Do they official color? It was I think fruit juice color and maybe turmeric, which is strange because it was strawberry frosted wheats. Okay. Oh, I get colors, but they were natural and they're declared in the ingredients list. Yeah. Wow.

(15:49) If it's an FDNC color by law by the regulation, it has to say either FDNC red 40 or red 40. You can't hide it by just saying, "Oh, color added, you can do that for some of the other colors that are in regulation." But for those synthetics that are being targeted by law, they have to be named. So, they do. Okay. That's what you say. I didn't know.

(16:13) so that they can look at the ingredients list and be able to pick them out pretty quick, you know, if they're concerned about that and want to try and avoid them. Oh, just to recap what you said earlier, is it just three colors? It's the red and then the two the orange you had mentioned. Is that it or is it all? Those are the band ones, you know, the ones that they will be removed from regulation. The approval is revoked. You absolutely cannot use this in food.

(16:35) So all of the others, the red 40, those are under that voluntary. Oh, okay. Out. Okay. I don't think a lot of people were clear on that. I wasn't. Right. And what are the three again? Can you remind us the three that are gone? Yeah. Red three, citrus, red number two, and orange B.

(16:54) So red three is the only one that's commonly used. Yeah. seen a lot of candies, you know, like the brightly colored, you know, lollipops and things like so. But the others, the red 40, the yellow five are still the ones that are controversial and those are the ones that craft and all of them are saying they're going to remove voluntarily.

(17:14) Okay, that's macaroni and cheese will not be as bright, right? Ready for your burnt orange brown? I'm gonna do a noodle near you. And a quick question. I'm so curious as to like obviously there's different versions of some of these products in different countries in Europe and Canada and US and outside of the actual regulation of the products and maybe the sourcing of the products that you mentioned to change an ingredient is it overall just cheaper to use some of these non-natural versions or is that insignificant is it more expensive for

(17:45) them to produce products in Europe instead of the US for example do you know that may be situation specific conventional wisdom though is that the synthetics are cheaper. Yeah. You know, ironically, they're more sterile potentially, you know, because they've been cooked up in a lab and, you know, in a manufacturing floor, right? The natural ones present unique challenges because if you think about like a plant-based color, it's being grown worldwide. So, the color variation from the geographic location where it's

(18:16) being made, you know, or where it's being grown, you know, could vary. You could have like raspberry juice as a color, but seasonally the color could change. Oh, that's true. Yeah, companies are going to have to deal with that. But then the big thing is that where companies will have to change how they handle food safety in the manufacturing sphere is things like heavy metals in the soils that could end up in the color and also pesticides. Pesticides.

(18:44) Okay. So, they'll have to implement procedures to test for those. Mhm. so that they can be sure that the color itself isn't contaminated in any way. Who does that? You guys, do you oversee that or is that the FD? We don't do anything along that line. But every manufacturing facility has what's called a food safety plan where they identify those types of hazards and then we'll have testing procedures in the factory. And they're required by law to have these food safety plans, too. To to test for pesticides, to test for

(19:15) heavy metals, you know, when they may be present. California, of course, you've got Prop 65. So, you know, they're gonna have to make sure that you don't have the lead in the cadmium and all of that. That would trigger the Prop 65 warning. So, you all are even doubly protected because you Prop 65. Yeah.

(19:38) So, listeners, if you're not familiar, that is the legislation in the state of California that you can't have if you have a cancer-causing chemical, you have to actually notify, you have to make, right? Am I saying that right? It has to be Yeah. It has to show to the consumer, right? I remember Starbucks. I don't see it anymore, but years ago, you would go in there and they would have a big sign.

(19:56) The roasting of the beans creates acryumide. I think I'm saying that right. Yeah. Which is acryinogen. And so they would post these little signs over by like the sugar and stirs and poof, they disappeared. So I don't know. I don't know what happened there.

(20:15) Are you familiar with that? I'm familiar with every bag of coffee in California has to have the Prop 65 warning. I'm not sure. I know there were some changes to the level that had to be present to trigger that warning. Oh, I'm not sure whether or not there are any changes to it though because we don't deal directly with Prop 65.

(20:33) It's just kind of something that's interesting from a regulatory standpoint as reg nerds, you know, try and follow all of that kind of stuff, you know, because California kind of leads the way, right, cases with all of this, you know, like the red three ban, you know, California kicked that in first, you know, California does, right? The school lunches, they banned it. Yeah. And California, yeah, you're right about leading the way.

(20:56) But also, doesn't it help the whole country because manufacturers typically if they're going to make something for California, they're going to just make it across the board versus having two different versions. Is that right? Yes, 100%. And that's also why I'm cautiously optimistic that this whole trend that we're seeing is not going to be a blip, that it may be a permanent shift because we're seeing individual states implementing similar bans.

(21:19) So last count there was maybe 15 or 20 15 maybe that had either bans in place or had pending legislation for them either in school lunches or in the general supply. So like West Virginia has a ban for school lunch programs. You know they can't have foods that have these synthetic colors. And I think it's 2028 they will have like a ban for the entire food supply in West Virginia. Oh wow.

(21:44) We're moving to West Virginia. Pack up. Get your West Virginia. Yeah. So, you're not Yeah. So, yeah, Virginia. I think we've got a ban coming up for the school lunch programs. Okay. But so, Texas this summer passed a labeling law where you have to have a warning that the product contains a chemical that has been deemed not appropriate for human consumption by the EU, UK, Canada, or Australia. Oh, wow.

(22:15) list of like 40 chemicals including all these synthetic colors and some other controversial ingredients and I think starting the end of this summer maybe you have a warning label on your box of Froot Loops if it's got any of these colors right now. Wow. State of Texas. That's interesting. Yeah. So that's a lot of changes going on.

(22:34) Yeah. So I companies are seeing the writing on the wall. Yeah. And I'm like, it is to your point, Lisa, like it is too difficult to try and get our supply and distribution chains to the point where we can be confident that we won't accidentally send something to Texas that can't be there, you know, send West Virginia that can't be there.

(22:57) And so they may just be deciding that reformulation as a whole is just easier and Yeah. across the board. So interesting, isn't it? It's pretty fascinating. Yeah. wild to watch, you know, when I'm on popcorn, you know, like right watching all this unfold is fascinating. It's fascinating.

(23:19) Now, you handle the colors in cosmetics as well or kind of all the labeling. Yeah. So, FDA has, you know, regulations on the books for which colors can be in food or cosmetics or supplements, drugs, medical devices, not so much because they don't tend to stay in constant contact with the body. But for the other categories, we researched the ingredients for all of those categories as well.

(23:43) But this ban is only for food, right? So, we're still going to see these colors and cosmetics, I'm sure. Yeah. So, the red dye 3 has a ban for drugs as well as food. The other two, the citrus red and the orange bee aren't used in any other food category or any other category at all. Okay.

(24:05) And then as far as like the voluntary phase out for those other synthetics like Red 40, I think they're earmarked mostly food right now, I don't I don't know that they're as worried about the cosmetic, but certainly ingestion. Mhm. I think the lipstick because Yeah. You've got all that red lake, which I believe, you could correct me if I'm wrong, is when they add aluminum to the red to make it stick to the product. And that's in a lot of lipsticks.

(24:29) And when you think how much lipstick you ingest, right? I mean, you're Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, you're like, "Where'd my lipstick go?" Well, I know. Mine's gone in like two seconds. I know. Gone. It's pointless on. So, yeah. So, what happens with the lipsticks and similar types of products is if red 40, for example, is water soluble.

(24:53) And so, for a product like lipstick where they want it to not be water- soluble, they do this, you know, additional step to put it on what they call a substratum. So like aluminum or barerium or something like that, you know, so that's no longer water soluble and it'll stay on our lips. And even that crazy the things we do for beauty, but I use all natural so I'm not using that. Well, that's that is I've got some great brands.

(25:11) I'll put some links in the show notes to some of my favorite brands. But you were talking about the pesticides like them having to test, right? If they're going to be sourcing natural colors, they could potentially get contaminated with metals and pesticides.

(25:30) Couldn't they legally have pesticides if they're not organic? So, I have a basic understanding for organic regulations because that's all under USDA. But if it's an organic product, then in theory, yes, the colors would deem to be organic as well. And therefore, pesticides would not be in theory part of that whole, you know, the growing process for those particular colors.

(25:50) And they would most likely source from companies that have been certified, you know, by an accredited USDA, you know, recognized organic certifier. So, organic cosmetics, organic foods should be sourcing from color suppliers that have that certification as well. Right. Right. Interesting. Yeah. But the other ones could be contaminated with pesticides.

(26:12) I mean, they already are, but a lot of the other ingredients. Yeah. Wow. They do test, you know, there are certain the EPA sets levels of pesticides that are permitted for certain food products and things. So, they test routinely, particularly on products being imported.

(26:31) If you have pesticides that exceed what the EPA and the FDA allow, they will refuse entry for the product. So, we see a lot of companies, they come to us, you know, and they say, "FDA is holding my product in the Port of Long Beach and they've tested it and they found pesticides." And I was like, "Well, send it on back because you are not going to be able to get it in." So, they do test periodically as well. Like a random.

(26:51) Yeah. Wow. And I'm curious, what ripple effects do you anticipate this trend will have on smaller manufacturers or private labels in terms of keeping up with clean label demands? So, you know, the real question that we've, you know, certainly been touching on a lot, you know, so far has been, you know, is this just a blip or is this sort of a permanent shift? in my heart of hearts hope this is a permanent shift yet also because a lot of our clients are small businesses you know they don't have their own regulatory teams they

(27:18) come to us for assistance and for them making the shift if they need to shift over from the synthetics to the natural alternatives is a larger commitment of resources than maybe it is for a craft and if they haven't been you know selling into the EU or other markets they're starting from scratch this is going to be kind of a big haul for them they're going to have to be prepared prepared to go through the reformulation process, you know, fixing all their labeling and beginning their distribution. And a lot of them are

(27:49) probably understandably worried like is this going to stick, you know, but wow, I am cautiously optimistic that this is going to be a permanent shift particularly because of all those state bans that we've been talking about. Yeah, that sounds like, you know, that's a big part of it.

(28:08) So I think small businesses just need to be prepared for that additional investment, you know, again, which will be a bigger hurdle for them. Do you suspect that a lot of these small businesses will also maybe plan even deeper ahead and go, okay, we're we're going to remove out these other That's what I was thinking that even the natural artificial flavors. Do you see that on the horizon for that? I'm not entirely sure. I know like RFK Jr.

(28:30) and the FDA have been putting out plans to start evaluating chemicals that are in the food supply. They put their tool recently that they say they're going to use to try and evaluate which are the higher risk additives versus others so that they can prioritize those for review. We're going to see where all of this goes.

(28:53) artificial flavor is such a broad term that can be used to cover so many different things that you know it's hard to know whether or not they're going to have that next in their sites or small businesses need to be worried about starting to reformulate to remove the artificial colors or not. You know, I think the overall trends are towards more natural have artificial flavors.

(29:17) You know, generally they're at a minimum they're going to be declared in the ingredients list. If it's a case where like I'm going to go down the nerd hole here, y'all forgive me. But like if you declare that flavor like my strawberry mini wheats, you know, or you declare that flavor in the product name or on the product packaging, then you are required to put naturally flavored or artificially flavored. And so you are Oh.

(29:43) If you market the flavor. Yeah. Yeah. They call it the characterizing flavor. And so if you've got it up there like your candy and with a big old pineapple on the front, if it's artificial or naturally flavored without real pineapple, then on on it goes, you have to tell. You have to disclose that. Yeah. Yep. Wow.

(30:02) It's amazing cuz what year do you know when they started putting food labels? Because it's hard to believe, but there was a time when the food labels weren't required, the ingredients lists. Do you know when that happened? I'm quizzing you. This is a pop quiz, but I remember I'm going to get graded. Grade me on a Lisa.

(30:25) So, you know, back in the horror days when they were, you know, adding sawdust to flour and everything was, you know, infiltrated, you know, like the early 1900s, that was the first law. It was in 1906. And then in 1938 is when they passed kind of the food, drug and cosmetic act that gave FDA the power and the authority to go ahead and require that labeling in general be truthful and not misleading. You know, you couldn't be lying about what you were putting in your product.

(30:54) And then the ingredient regulations all started to come around in like the 1950s, you 60s and the 70s. Was this after they found cocaine, I guess, and coke, right? Coke and there was a lot. Weird stuff, right? Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, there was not much in the way regulation prior to all of cigarettes.

(31:18) Have you seen the old posters of the doctors recommending this type of cigarette? There were a while. So that we would not gain weight in our pregnancies, right? Okay. Don't gain weight. Wow. That's why they're called the slim the ultra slims. That brand, right? Oh, is that the reason why? I don't know. I'm guessing. Sounds good. They glamorized it. Yeah. Yes. That's so crazy. Wow.

(31:37) Well, this is really fascinating. Now, does this food coloring legislation apply to dog food or just human consumption? So, with the revocation, which means, you know, with red three, they're removing it completely like it's aless kaput. The interesting part with animal feed and pet food is that some of the regulations specifically mention, you know, dog and cat food. There's just sort of a general understand.

(32:02) in for pet food that if it's approved for human consumption, then it's approved for animal feed or pet food. But just like with the human food, you have to declare it by its name. So if you don't want your pets to be consuming these synthetic color additives either, then just look at that ingredients list.

(32:23) Usually they're going to be at the tail end because they're used in very small amounts. Just take a quick look, see whether or not red 40 is listed or any of them. And that way you can avoid having your pets consuming it it as well. Right. Right. I think that's so important. Pet health is I mean they get the same illnesses as humans. Right. It's wild like cancer and all of this.

(32:40) Well, you are what you eat. So are too, you know. I think it's important to spend that extra money to get good quality food. Not just for yourself, but for your pet. What's been the most shocking thing that you've come across in your work doing this? Anything that's kind of Oh. Oh, I've got some stories.

(32:59) Ah, share insiders. You got to write a book. Pick a category, Lisa. I want the tell all. Some of the dietary supplements are wild, you know, and some of them have some very interesting ingredients. The craziest one I think I ever saw was one that had ground up cockroaches as the Oh my, right.

(33:25) It's called Is it Carmine, which is the color red or is that is that No, it's not from cockroaches. Carmine is I'm trying to think the name of the insect. It is though these beautiful red insects and so those little guys get ground up and is definitely non-vegan. No. Yeah. This was a dietary supplement where the cockroaches were there on purpose. But really, you know, God Yeah.

(33:53) There's also a fungus called cortiseps that is kind of comes out of a lot of like the Chinese herbal medicine kind of tradition. Yeah, that's a mushroom, right? Gordicisps is a mushroom. Yeah, it's a fungus. It's basically what, you know, mushroom is. But it infests like ants and it takes over their brains. And I kid you not, it's like a zombie fungus that takes them over their brains and directs the ants, I think, to like higher ground to where it's sunny.

(34:18) And it I mean it's sort of gruesome, right? I'm not gross with like your listeners anymore with people love this stuff. It's so cuz I've eaten those kind of mushrooms. I've had them in supplements. Are you saying all of it is potentially to have that cortiseps specifically? Yeah, I've corticus. Yeah, that's what it Okay, I saw a video on that.

(34:40) Yeah, you're absolutely right. Because we just did we're doing a parasite cleanse right now. We're all into this. Like there's that particular parasite that goes into a praying mantis. Have you ever seen it? It's a horsehair worm, I think. And it's really long and it goes into the praying mantis and it takes over the entire praying mantis.

(35:01) It like becomes the praying mantis. It's so You guys, right? That's Yeah. These poor little ants. Yeah. Oh my. Okay. hardwiring the mood. There's so many weird things. So, we have two doctor friends of ours and she had come out with a nutrition bar and a vegan like protein bar and she was saying the labeling is really lack on the supplements, right? That she was kind of surprised with a lot of the like expiration dates are kind of I don't want to say made up, but she was kind of alluding to that. Have you heard that?

(35:40) And also like you're hearing about Amazon now, you're hearing all the time on social media, Amazon's these companies will rip off another supplement company and make it look like they're the legitimate company, but they'll use really cheap junky ingredients and that's why the price is like half.

(35:56) Have you heard of that? Yeah. Yeah. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. You know, okay. The challenge that certainly FDA faces and we as consumers face is that with a few exceptions of some drug products, labels don't get approved by FDA. So supplements, foods, overthec counter drugs, most of our medical devices as well, you know, don't go through any sort of label approval process. Oh my goodness.

(36:27) So nobody's coming behind to check, you know, to make sure. You'll see every now and then, you know, headlines about FDA finding that people are, you know, lacing their supplements with illegal drugs or things like that. Yeah, they try, but it's such a huge marketplace and relatively speaking, they don't have the manpower necessarily to do it and they don't have the power to force companies to get labels approved ahead of time or like that.

(36:53) Oh my gosh, that's pretty eye opening. So really, supplements is that area that is vulnerable. or you know we see a fair amount of kind of eyebrow raising claims on some of our clients products like does it really do this you know because those are not pre-clared right so you're supposed to have data but until FDA comes and asks you for it you know you can sort of put what you want you want on thereable oh so it really comes down to brand reputation and then this doctor friend had said the certificate of analysis if you look for that on supplements ments.

(37:29) That's actually a really good thing. Yeah. If they post it, like they have a website where they post that to prove that it's testing, you know, um the amount of jinseng or magnesium or whatever to prove that you're actually getting what you're paying for. That's great, you know, because otherwise, you know, we don't really know. We don't really know. That's so interesting. Wow. Fascinating.

(37:53) Well, any last tips or advice for our listeners to avoid cockroaches in their Yeah. If you don't recognize the name of it, don't buy it. Yeah. Google it first. Google it. So, my takeaway and what I would say to your listeners is, you know, for those of us that are interested in natural alternatives and everything, you know, the power of the purse, put your money towards those brands that are making the move to the natural alternatives. You know, trying to help us get additives out of, you know, the ultrarocessed

(38:24) food, you know, that just has spike our food supply. companies will respond if the sales stay where they are or go up. So yeah, we have the purchasing power. You guys listening, we have the power to demand. These brands will listen. Nowadays, you can just reach out on Instagram to these brands.

(38:45) I have to a couple brands asking like, hey, you know, your iced tea didn't say it's filtered. Is it? And then they sent me a huge long thing back about their filtration process. And it was like, you know, before the internet, you couldn't do that. you'd have to write a letter and it' be mailed and and no one probably got back to you. So, we do have that closer connection now with these brands where we can Yeah.

(39:04) And if I could throw out one other thing too with the Texas labeling law that I was talking about earlier, you know, another part of that law that I was really excited to see was that it also directed the state to put more money to nutrition education in the schools, which I just think is so important. You know, I mean, we've been talking about how wholesome foods, natural, organic, less processed is just so important to a healthy diet and addressing, you know, the chronic disease that, you know, has really kind of taken over, you know, big portions of our population. And so, you know, pushing lawmakers to have the schools, you know, teach kids at an earlier age,

(39:41) you know, the value of nutrition and safe, wholesome, healthy, natural foods, I think is really pivotal, you know, to around some of the chronic disease situation in the US. So, that's must you know do it. It's true because, you know, even Rod and I deal with the chemicals in the home. That's our alley that we are in.

(40:02) And it's really mindboggling a lot. I mean, how many people go, "Well, it's on the shelf. It must be safe. There can't be anything toxic in that." And then you're like, "No, there is there's cancer-causing chemicals allowed in a lot of these things that you're ingesting and putting on your skin and sleeping on.

(40:21) " And you do have to become an informed consumer today. And like you said, learning how to read the labels or ask the questions and really understanding where our food comes from because, you know, I know growing up, Ron and I always laugh like we grew up in the Twinkie generation, you know. Oh yeah. All these processed desserts and never in a million years did you think some of this wasn't saves because your parents said it to you and you every all your friends ate it so you just assumed it's fine. Well, I guess heard Twinkies don't like break down or

(40:49) like Yeah, true. Mom's cabinet are probably still around looking exactly the same, right? So, yeah, education guys to take the time, spend the more money when you can. I know you're probably familiar with Environmental Working Group and their Dirty Dozen and their Clean 15 produce list that they come out with every year. And it's such a great tool because everyone's on a budget.

(41:13) Who's not? Everyone's on a budget. You can put the money into the foods that the produce that's highest in pesticides. Buy those organic and then the ones that are lowest in pesticides you can buy conventional. And there's a really good money-saving tip. So, absolutely. That's my food tip. Well, thank you so much for being with us today, Anna.

(41:33) And as always, friends, you can find the show notes at healthyhome hats.com. Yes. Listeners, we appreciate you so much. And be sure, thank you. Please review and rate our shows. Five stars are always appreciated. It really helps us. Let us know if what segments you like, what you want to see more of. We really appreciate the feedback. And if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the podcast as well.

(41:55) And just consider this a friendly reminder. Thank you everyone. Anna, thank you. Have a great day. Bye-bye. This episode of the Healthy Home Hacks podcast has ended, but be sure to subscribe for more healthy living strategies and tactics to help you create the healthy home you've always dreamed of.

(42:19) And don't forget to rate and review so we can continue to bring you the best content. See you on the next episode. [Music]}