It’s National Breast Cancer Awareness Month making this episode highly relevant and enormously essential. We’ve dedicated episode #13: bOObs: The War on Breasts to our beloved sister-in-law, Odessa Beres, who lost her battle (at age 44) one year ago to stage 4 breast cancer, and to all who are affected by breast cancer. Today, 1 in 8 women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in her lifetime.
After losing her husband to cancer, filmmaker and investigative journalist, Megan S. Smith, suddenly lost three friends to breast cancer and began asking questions. In her newly released documentary, bOObs: The War on Women’s Breasts, Megan questions the controversy surrounding the most widely used breast cancer screening tool today, mammography.
No stranger to controversial topics, Megan interviews doctors who disclose how mammography can affect the lives of women through over-diagnoses, radiation-induced cancer, trauma-generated metastases, and unnecessary treatments such as chemo, radiation, and mastectomies — and how and why safer screening tests of thermography and ultrasound are being kept from wider use.
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Episode Links
- Key Facts and Sources
- Watch the documentary now: bOObs: The War on Women’s Breats
- Find a Breast thermography Center Near You
- Universal Imaging Medical Group (Dr. Galina Migalko, MD, Burbank, CA)
- Thermography or Mammogram? 5 Points of Comparison
- BONUS GIFT: The Breast Cancer Home Checklist
Narrator
How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts. listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy, you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, bow biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados, Ron and Lisa Beres.
Lisa Beres
Hello, friends, and welcome to today's show today is very extra special for us. Because we are talking about an incredibly important topic that affects everybody listening men and women. And today we are talking about breasts.
Ron Beres
And in fact, for those of you who aren't familiar with Rhonda Lisa, who haven't listened to all the podcasts or come to the site for content, you may not be familiar with the fact that unfortunately, our sister in law, she passed away of breast cancer about a year ago. And that's why this podcast is near and dear to our heart and we want to dedicate it to her. Her name is Odessa Beres and we really do miss her. And hopefully this this podcast sheds some light. We are also going to dedicate this podcast to Megan Smith is our expert today and her husband actually passed, Proctor Jones. We're dedicating this podcast to him as well. And we appreciate you guys listening today on this very important topic of thermography and how it can help you with breast screening.
Lisa Beres
And to all the women fighting breast cancer and to all the survivors. This is for you as well. So, ladies and gentlemen, listen up. We all know early detection of any disease is key for optimal health. But when us gals hear the word mammography, a feeling of nervousness tends to rush over our body, especially while undergoing the uncomfortable exam of having your breasts smashed by a total stranger between two cold metal plates, followed by nervously awaiting test results. That's a lot of anxiety. But wait, there's more. According to a study, during a decade of receiving mammograms, more than half of cancer free women will be summoned back for more testing because of false positive results. And about one in 12 will be referred for a biopsy. I can share with you that I have personally opted out of receiving mammograms. It all began in my early 30s. When I was seeing an integrative MD in Santa Monica, California. she advised me to try something called thermography a noninvasive early detection method for breast cancer screening, which by the way, is capable of detecting cancer precursors years before a tumor forms unlike mammography. thermography is radiation free. Over a 30-year period the use of mammograms, which aims to detect breast calcifications has led to over diagnosing 1.3 million US women, resulting in needless treatments for breast cancers that otherwise may not have spread. Alternatively, thermography or thermographic imaging works by detecting heat and increased blood flow. It emits zero radiation and is not affected by the density of breast tissue. The differences between thermography and mammography are vast and we are going to dive deep into this topic on today's show. So, you feel empowered and knowledgeable to make informed choices that are safe for you. Oh, and let me remind you, the best medicine is always prevention. We have a free breast cancer proof your home checklist that you can download in the show notes of this episode at random lisa.com forward slash podcast.
Ron Beres
Our special guest today is blowing the lid on the topic of breasts and the breast cancer screening industry. Megan s Smith is the writer, director and producer of a feature length documentary boobs the war on women's breasts, which garnered numerous Film Festival awards. Boobs looks into a controversial breast cancer screening test of mammography, but also considers a future protocol option for women thermography in conjunction with ultrasound with an MS in biology, and a thesis in molecular genetics, Megan currently works as a documentary filmmaker and a freelance investigative journalist in the areas of science and health. Without further ado, Megan Welcome to the show. Welcome Megan.
Megan S. Smith
Wow great enthusiasm for boobs.
Lisa Beres
I don't think that's unique to this show alone.
Ron Beres
Your film Boobs, which we just mentioned, The War on Women's Breasts, which, by the way, listeners, you can stream this online, you can actually buy the DVD and learn more at www.boobsdoc.com. So that's boobsdoc.com. And it investigates the controversy swirling around mammography, the most widely used breast cancer screening test today. So, Megan, how did you get into making this film? And what was your motivation?
Megan S. Smith
So, my, my husband passed up cancer 11 years ago, lung cancer, and I had three girlfriends done breast cancer, and within a three years time period, and all of their cancer had been in remission for at least 10 years, one woman 30 years. And I said, you know, something's wrong with this, this situation here. And I was I was already making a film on alternative cancer therapies, because some of these therapies were working on my husband before he went conventional. And I was halfway through editing that and I noticed that 10 minutes of my 90-minute film on that subject was on mammography, and I said, Okay, well, this is sucking up a lot of my film. And I decided to spin that out and make a short of that and put it into the film festivals. And my distributor cinema, Libra studio out of LA. I sent it to them. And they said, at the time, they weren't my distributor, but they saw the short and they said we really liked this. Can you expand it into a feature? And let's do it? I said sure. Wow, very impressive. Thank you. So, I stopped the first film. This one out as my first film the next one. Wow, hopefully next year.
Lisa Beres
So, in your film boobs, the war on women's breast, which I think is accurately titled, the future doctors in the film disclose how mammography can affect the lives of women through radiation induced cancer, trauma generated metastasis and unnecessary treatments such as chemo, radiation, and mastectomies. What are some common myths surrounding breast cancer screening today?
Megan S. Smith
So, I went through the literature and I found that a lot of the websites Association websites had the same recurring themes of these myths, and they literally use that word myth is so I kind of turned that around. I said, Well, no, actually, those are myths. But yeah, they say that mammography is early detection. Now actually, by the time you catch something on a test of anatomy, and like mammography, it's already it's already an encapsulated tumor. So that's already been there, you know, anywhere from two to 10 years. That's not really election. Right? We will, right,
Lisa Beres
I saw that you have a great section on your website with some facts. And I and I did see that fact. And I had never heard of that before, because I think a lot of women aren�t aware.
Megan S. Smith
Oh that, right. I wasn't either. Yeah. And then I found out about thermography, through Dr. Galina Galco, who's there, and Dr. Ben Johnson, there in LA, and thermography started to talk about it is actually it can be looked at as a test of prevention, because you're looking at inflammation in the breast. And that's what leads to cancer. If you know, you're one of your breasts is inflamed, then you can change your lifestyle, not easy to do, right? You can lifestyle, look at where their stress is coming from, and trying to reverse them. And so, prevention and mammography and even ultrasound is not is not that. It's too late by the time you catch it with one of those tests.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, it's very true. Our sister in law, who we talked about, at the top of the show, she originally was diagnosed with stage two, and then it came back four years later as stage four. So yeah, I do think that early changes in lifestyle, detecting that early and making those changes are really, really, really key, especially with breast cancer.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, another myth that's really important to understand is they tell us that over and over, they say that mammograms are low radiation, that term is really relative, because there's nothing that says at this, you know, at this step, this is when it goes from low to medium to high. There's nothing out there that says that. Yeah, what doctors are told my understanding is in med schools and also by their associations, is when a woman comes to you and says how much radiation is in these things, which I've asked my doctor and I got this answer is, it's the same as flying across the United States. That's the same amount of radiation per mammogram. Hmm. And that actually, when they're talking about that, they're spinning it. The doctors, I don't think understand this. But somebody does, yeah. Because it's actually that's the scattered radiation amount across your body from the mammogram. That's not the direct radiation that's going into your breast that can cause induced breast cancers years later. Wow. That's Yeah. When I found that out, I found that out from a Columbia University professor, and I said, Whoa, whoa, because I noticed there were two different ways they're talking about radiation.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, heavily targeted radiation, which is just not good for Anything I mean, I know thyroid cancer. I have read one of the causes, or maybe the main cause is directed radiation around the head. Well, if you're getting radiation on your breast, I mean to me that's pretty close. Right that I'll never send it in. Yeah, we're not talking about a little dental X ray here.
Ron Beres
Your lymph nodes as well, right? Isn't that part of the problem as well?
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, it is, by the closer you are, the more radiation it's going to get. So, they're spinning this and I asked radiologists. I asked three radiologists and three of them did not understand this difference. No. I'm not sure how they got through med school without understanding just different.
Ron Beres
Doctors?
Megan S. Smith
Not doctors, they�re radiologists,
Ron Beres
Radiologists. I'm sorry.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah. radiologists know how to read scans. Right. That's what they learn. But it's the radiation physicists. They're the ones that really understand the radiation. And that's why I was talking to her that I discovered this. I'm not saying that all radiologists don't know that this is going on. But nobody's talking about this and women are being led down this road of a slow radiation when in fact, it's not. Because a lot of us have dense breast tissue. And because of obesity, 8% of the women out there have what they consider large breasts and they have to have more than two views for each mammogram. Now they're doubling up on the on the radiation. Oh, wow. Breast you have to shoot more radiation through the dense right.
Lisa Beres
And isn't it true with breast implants to that it's very hard to get an accurate reading with the mammogram?
Megan S. Smith
Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know that much about that. But I do. I do know. Yeah, I think they have to increase the radiation load there.
Lisa Beres
Do you know off topic? Well, it is on topic? What are the guidelines now? Because I know it's changed like it used. And everybody's got a different age at which women should start doing mammograms and how often should you do it? I thought recently, they pulled back and said not every year anymore. Is that true?
Megan S. Smith
That's true, but about 10 years actually, believe it or not. It was after some studies came out. It was the Nordic Cochrane center was the one I think that brought this to everybody's attention. They're one of the most unbiased and well-respected research centers in the world. And they looked at the literature and said, you know, we're actually inducing some breast cancers with radiation. But most of the problem is with overdiagnosis, especially with the cancer called DCIS, which is 25% of breast cancers. They've actually deemed a stage zero, they had to make up a new stage number. Oh, it's actually a pre cancer but they call it ductal carcinoma inside to the word carcinoma. Women hear that and they freak out and they think I don't want this in my body and they're having prophylactic mastectomies. Leno, relative who's had that happen. I was like, zero. Wait, what you do a mastectomy at stage zero, I had never heard of that. So, you're saying like the body could obviously overcome that that would never maybe lead to cancer, but it's just more of a fear tactic does what people are thinking that they're over diagnosing this, and maybe they should be rethinking? I know, there's a big study out of UC San Francisco, Dr. esserman is looking at this right now, because they are over diagnosing this some of those cancers and wanting to not go anywhere, you don't know which ones are going to become invasive. But the thing I discovered about DCIS adult is also not being talked about is the lining of the ducks are made out of epithelial cells, those are much more prone to radiation damage, Okay, wow, radiating or rate, and that's where most cancers in the breast start is in the epithelial cells, that duct and they're more susceptible to radiation damage. So right, there is a reason to be radiating our breath, right, that are just totally opposite of what we should be doing. That's one of them.
Lisa Beres
That's crazy. It's like the killing of everything, including the healthy stuff, too. So that's, you know, the big issue with that, can you tell if a breast cancer is radiation induced? Can it's Can someone will they know that when they've been diagnosed? Or is that just one of the ways?
Megan S. Smith
They can�t tell that. I think they're using statistics and studies through the ages of what they've known since we, you know, drop the bomb, unfortunately, they get a lot of these statistics from and they extrapolate from there. So, you can't you can't absolutely prove it, but if somebody has x, you know, a gazillion my girlfriend had 40 mammograms. So, she finally you know, developed DCIS was it was it Yeah, all that compression and radiation, right? You know, she suspects it might be.
Lisa Beres
And, it�s not just that radiation, you combine that with other radiations that we're getting exposure to in our life right so we're getting ready we get radiation from the earth even and from, like you said, traveling and all different things. So obviously Now a lot of you know wireless radiation, so then you add that so it could just be a compounding issue. We don't want to put that burden on our body.
Ron Beres
What does the acronym DCIS stand for? Not to put you on the spot
Megan S. Smith
So ductal for breast ductal carcinoma insight to an insight to means in place it's a Latin term, like carcinoma. Obviously, that's the word that women hear carcinoma, and they're like, wait a minute, this is cancer and like not pre cancer. Yeah. Right.
Ron Beres
So typically diagnosed when they tell the patient when they say it's DCIS. Or they give them the full term as well.
Megan S. Smith
They do. They tell them you have DCIS and explain it, but the woman just hears the word carcinoma, and it's using them, and they're talking about changing the nomenclature of that cancer, but they haven't done it yet.
Ron Beres
Okay, well, the good news is, I'm aware of thermography because my wife, Lisa, she's only done this and she's never actually had a mammogram, thankfully. And I see that you haven't been shy about revealing the self-interest of the industry, the conflicts of interest in the medical research that's prevented really safer tests of thermography and ultrasound from wider use. Are these the most astonishing things that you learned in making the film? Or are there other bombshells that we should know about?
Megan S. Smith
Well, I think the fact that women aren't a radiation exposure was really that to me, I just kept, I was dumbfounded by the fact that we're not being paid, told the amount that we're actually getting, and quick, which can be up to 20 and 20 times the amount that's actually being pulled to us, which is ridiculous. No one is talking about this, which is surprising. But women also are given informed consent, because of all of these things combined. You know, the film goes into all these different, you know, I was going down these rabbit holes, but they were each important rabbit hole. Yeah. More information. And the fact that none of this is being told to us, I think the doctors, you know, I think a lot of them don't know, why don't they know, they don't have time to do the research. And their associations aren't telling them the correct information for whatever reason, right? The grant woods, the former Attorney General of Arizona, I actually interviewed him and he was the one who brought up this informed consent. And I realized, wow, this is crazy. And he said, it could it be breaking some laws, but they're not telling us this? He said, she said he thought consumer protection laws were definitely being broken.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. I mean, you should know you should be told exactly how much radiation you're going to get right? Yeah, yeah. And then make your choice. Make it like you said, Your informed consent. Wow. So, this might come as a shock to some listeners. But mammography is a 20 billion with a �b� a $20 billion industry, facilitated by insurance companies and governmental agencies that prevents the widespread use of alternative methods for breast cancer screening. Now, I personally have shelled out money out of pocket each time that I've had my thermography and ultrasound because my insurance does not cover it. And I'm sure yours doesn't either. Is there anything else not in the film that you'd like to divulge?
Megan S. Smith
Actually, I want to expand on what you're saying about the insurance because it's important to understand this. So, mammography is the only test that's the primary approved by insurance for being a primary screening tool. Everything else is an adjunct to that. So, you have to get the mammogram first, before your doctor, unless there's some weird circumstance, they'll have, you'll have to get the mammogram before you get the ultrasound and you know, the thermography. They're not going to pay for anyway. Yeah. But a lot of women with dense breasts, I found that ultrasound is actually better for probably at least 50% of us than mammograms at detecting tumors because the ultrasound can see through the white tissue of the breast of the dense tissue better. So why aren't we just doing the ultrasound first? So, the mammogram? No, you have to do the mammogram first so they can make their money.
Lisa Beres
The insurance company covers it. So, if the if you get the mammogram, and then your doctor says, Oh, we need to see more, we're going to order an ultrasound, they'll pay that. But like, in my case, in my case, I skip all that. And I just go straight to the thermography. And then they usually do an ultrasound with me too. And to be honest, for anybody listening, they are paying less these treatments, there is no pain, there's no discomfort, they're quick, your thermography takes about 15 minutes, and nothing even touches you it's all infrared camera, and then the ultrasound. Everybody knows what an ultrasound is. That's super painless to so the experience is so much more pleasant to and I just guess you do pay. But I have to be honest, I think the prices have come down because they have become really more popular. As people become more informed, and they become more readily available. 200 $250 that's probably pretty standard for thermography. I'd really encourage you to check that out in your area and be proactive with your health. Like it's just an underlying theme that Ron and I are always sharing in every area. And today's topic is no exception, right?
Megan S. Smith
There's no radiation in either one of those tests. Yeah. And ultrasound at the very least ultrasound should be approved as the primary screening tool. So, women don't have to get the mammogram if they have dense breast tissue. That's just that's just crazy, right?
Lisa Beres
Why go through that right? Just go straight to the ultrasound. Yeah.
Ron Beres
Hey, Megan, as part of your investigation. Did you discover anything from a liability perspective? So, if it's a thorough if the mammogram, sorry, if the mammogram is actually missing, you know, the opportunity to find something in many cases, aren't they liable if you come back shortly thereafter, and let's say you get a thermogram and identifies a cancerous growth.
Megan S. Smith
Well, a lot of luck. of the cancers are being discovered months after a mammogram That happens a lot. Even the American Cancer Society said that that happens frequently because the mammogram is so inaccurate because, again, mostly because this dense breast tissue, I don't think the doctors because it's the standard of care for mammography first adjunct only if they find something, they'll do an adjunct of ultrasound or another mammogram or an MRI. Otherwise, they're not being held accountable now. So, they always hide behind the standard of care, because that's, it's a legal term. And it's what the average doctor would do. But the standard care because of the insurance guidelines set by Medicare and followed by all the private insurance, you have to do a mammogram first. So, I've never heard any lawsuits.
Ron Beres
It may get many the Rams are like a million dollars for the machinery, right that the office is investing in. Well, how much would it cost of a thermography machine is it was a few hundred dollars� worth why wanted to switch the protocol?
Megan S. Smith
Because radiologists don't want to learn another, another machine. But the camera itself is to get a decent one. And you were from probably starting at least 5000, something like that. The software, I think he can get a really good program somewhere between 20 to 30,000. For the whole software in the camera, I don't want to give you figures because although he's here, but it was something like that. It was a lot more reasonable. But again, to try and change this paradigm is going to take a groundswell of women saying, okay, we're tired of this. We've been doing mammograms for 50 years now this radiation, the squishy of the breast makes no sense. Let's you know, women are talking to each other. And there are all kinds of horror stories are coming out about going back for a second mammogram because your breasts are too dense. And now they're shooting you with all kinds of tons of radiation. So yeah, women are talking were concerned.
Lisa Beres
Women are talking it's good to get the conversation up. And I did hear the dense breast issue is very common in younger women especially
Megan S. Smith
fused about this, supposedly your breasts are denser when you're younger. But then everybody I talked to our breast seem to be getting denser as we're getting older. So, we're not a freshman like Who are these fatty tissues, women that they're talking about? It's just percent of us. I don't know anybody. And then everybody's saying the same thing.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, that's interesting. Wow. Well, we have a caller. Megan, if you're open to taking a call. Hi, Samantha, what is your question for Megan?
Caller, Samantha
Hi. Thank you. So, are you expecting any pushback from medical entities or practitioners?
Megan S. Smith
Generally speaking, when you go up against conventional therapies, there's going to be pushed back, the radiology associations are not going to like this. I don't know who else is going to be thrown a fit. But you know, they're the ones that are going to be bucking because like I said, they don't want to radiologist don't want to learn one more new thing that 3d mammograms is already throwing them into having to learn a whole new machine. That's a whole other story. By the way, those most of those machines have twice the amount of radiation as what we're using now. Because you have to have app, I'm going to sidebar now. But the machines have to have a software or they take two sets of pictures. And if you don't ask the facility, if they have the software, you're getting twice the amount of radiation. And they don't tell you that you have to ask that question.
Lisa Beres
Well, you have to be gosh, you have to be such your own health proponent nowadays, it just goes, when it comes to food and personal care. I mean, the list goes on and on. And especially with your health care, you really do. Samantha, I hope that answered your question.
Caller, Samantha
Makes it a lot easier to be your own advocate.
Lisa Beres
Thank you so much for calling in. Today, I visit an integrative Center here in Orange County, California, which is where we live, and they offer thermography in conjunction with ultrasound. As it turns out, when used in combination, these two screening tests also act as a much earlier detection tool, as we talked about earlier. Are doctors aware of mammography�s detriments now?
Megan S. Smith
They are not to the full extent of what what's in my film, again, when the radiologist doesn�t even know the difference between radiation units. That's a little scary. I kind of goes from there. So, I'm hoping that a lot of doctors actually see this film because I put the medical literature rate in there for them. It was actually the American Cancer Society. When I interviewed Otis Brawley, who's their chief medical officer. He was the one who said, you know, mammograms are suboptimal. mammography is a sub optimal test, and we need a better test. And so, I went with him Dr. My Galco from LA actually brought her to DC and she met with Dr. Brawley. And by the end of the class, he said thermography has been tested. It doesn't work. It's, you know, a long time ago, they looked at this and I said now Look, let's we need to talk to you about this. So, what do you got the presentation from her, he actually. His mind got changed. And he said, you know, I could see them doing a bigger study on this and, and seeing if this protocol of ultrasound with thermography might work. thermography is the one that catches it earlier. ultrasounds, I can catch it earlier than mammogram unless you have dense breasts you want, they're about the same. But thermography is the one we need to get into this mix. It catches the inflammation.
Lisa Beres
It catches that earliest. Right, right.
Ron Beres
Well, Dr. Otis Brawley. That was incredibly brave of him and our statement that he actually made in regards to that. But why aren't other doctors speaking up about this?
Megan S. Smith
Well, you know, doctors go through med school, and they're, they're taught the party line, and a lot of them just go down that line. Like I said, they don't have time to study things. They learn the information through their associations, talking to their, you know, they talk amongst themselves. And unless somebody goes in and breaks that mold, which is really hard to do, it's hard to change the paradigm. But I think the way to do it, I've already been talking to Congress about this a little bit and see if I can maybe sway some, I used to lobby Congress.
Lisa Beres
Oh, right. Yeah. The background on that What a perfect segue of your, all your different expertise is going together. Wow. And I think I wonder too; are they is their fear of being ostracized in their industry?
Megan S. Smith
I think that goes into the heart of it. Because if they do, a lot of times, they'll be get called before the medical board, hey, you're not you're not, you know, following standard of care, you're going out there outside the box. And sometimes if they're using a protocol, like the people with the supplements, you know, FDA will get involved. That's, that's when it gets really ugly. Yeah, they're kind of they're there. It's, you know, one doctor from Stanford said, you know, it's really a goose-stepping kind of thing. They all go step behind each other with the same mentality because they're afraid to get out of line.
Ron Beres
And, that�s just that's not the way to, oh, no, that's not innovative.
Lisa Beres
They take an oath, they take an oath to do no harm, right? That Hippocrates, I think, sometimes they lose sight of that along the journey or not speaking out, and it takes a brave person to do that. I'm just happy that there are so many like functional integrative MDS that are very much embracing this, and that women do have the choice to, to go out and make that choice for themselves. I think that's really the message of today's podcast is Hey, do your research, come to your own conclusion. But guess what, be aware and know that you have choices.
Megan S. Smith
And, you know, when I was interviewing these doctors for my next film, about across the board, every single one of them was had been harassed by the medical boards or brought before them or FDA and rarely are they found guilty, man, what does that tell you? Right here that tells you that they're just awful What's going on? They can't. Or they're, that's terrible.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, I think we see it on a lot of industries right now. Yeah. So many women aren't aware that according to the FDA thermography has been cleared since 1982, as an adjunct for detecting breast cancer. So, this is safe. The FDA says it's safe. How are women reacting to the messages in the film? What kind of feedback Are you hearing?
Megan S. Smith
I'm hearing positive things. I think before they see the film, they're like, how can you dare go up against mammography or, you know, a wonderful machine, a lot of women, their cancers were, you know, caught early by mammograms, so some resistance from them, but in this film would probably be hard for women. If you do have cancer, and you've had you've had treatment, I can see where this film might be hard to watch, quite frankly, I do feel bad about that. But the women that have not, you know, gone through this yet those I guess probably my audience, it's a learning curve for everybody. But both ultrasound and thermography have been FDA approved. And it's just thermography never went through the regulations like ultrasound and mammography did or MRI, it needs to be regulated more, because right now a lot of people just pay, I can go grab a camera on the thermographer. And that's scary. Oh, that you do your due diligence. And I actually give a website. I don't have it handy right now. But there's a website in my film that has, these are the people that would be recommended by the person that interprets my thermograms. And he's done his due diligence. He's worked with the grandfather of thermography. Or he passed away. Dr. Hobbins.
Ron Beres
Let's make sure we get that. And maybe in the show notes later, if you would mind. Later.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. Let's add that to the show notes. And also, is there a link where women could go or I guess men to right, where people could go to find a thermography in their area?
Megan S. Smith
So, this would be that this would be where they find somebody in there.
Lisa Beres
Oh, excellent. Okay, and but you're saying we need a certification for these particular radiologists?
Megan S. Smith
Right now, you can go through some easy training course and become a thermographer. But you really need to know what you're doing because you're working with people's lives here. have the right equipment, you need to be able to run the equipment correctly and you need a good interpreter.
Lisa Beres
Doesn't it legally have to be read by a radiologist? Are you saying, oh, it doesn't? I have a radiologist that reads mine. It's the labs are sent out to radiology.
Megan S. Smith
Somebody doesn't have to necessarily be a radiologist; they just need to be well advised and how to interpret the thermogram. Right. Yeah, I mean, radiologist, they will learn how to do this and be great, because then you also have a medical doctor on board.
Lisa Beres
I would think so.
Ron Beres
With your experience in Washington DC. Do you see this changing anytime soon? Or do you think this is going to be an uphill battle to get everyone focused on regulating thermography?
Megan S. Smith
It�s going be an uphill battle, anytime you go against conventional. Now that the film is out, I'm going to start making on my Facebook page. And wherever else I can figure out how to get this going. I'm maybe putting out petitions for women to sign that we need to change this we want. We want to study ultrasound and thermography on and then spread the whole dense breast tissue. There's a whole bunch of reasons you could you could state for wanting to change this. So. And there's a lot of women on the hill now. So, I think they're going to be listening. And we'll see. But I do need some people underneath me, just to say, yeah, we agree with you. So, it's not just me.
Ron Beres
Not your first rodeo because you actually had a groundbreaking report on the inaccuracy of Lyme disease testing in the Washington Post.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, I had Lyme disease back in 2007. And I've been misdiagnosed for a year and a half. I finally found out that when I got through my brain fog that the tests were inaccurate. And so, I called up the Washington Post, I said, hey, guess what? And they said, Oh, we didn't realize that was going on? I said, Yeah, this isn't being reported. And these doctors don't understand these tests are inaccurate. So, they were very kind of let me write a little a little deadness for the paper. Yeah. And since then, it's in my local paper, I wrote about the underreporting of Lyme, which was just as important because doctors didn't know how pervasive it was. My doctor said, it doesn't exist in Virginia, like Well, my dogs both habitat it so you know, right after that, the incidence went way up. And now they're calling it an epidemic. Wow, I still want to talk about Lyme disease, either. But that's a whole other subject. I hope to do my third film on Lyme disease. So, you have carried yourself I have using alternatives.
Ron Beres
Yes. Great job, Megan.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, fantastic. It is incurable. For the most part. They're conventional. Johns Hopkins said, you know, we can't help you. We can put you on IV antibiotics, the rest of your life on and off, and that's best forgotten. I'm like, well, that's not the answer.
Ron Beres
Yeah, okay, well, besides watching the film, and learning more at boobs, doc.com. So boobsdoc.com, or any other call to actions for women to partake in?
Megan S. Smith
So, at the end of the film, I give women a to do list of to write your congressmen and senators, because that really does help and write your attorney general of your state. And I tell I tell the women exactly what to ask in a letter really important that they literally do listen to this stuff on the hill, because that's how they decided.
Lisa Beres
That's their job. They better be. Now, that's good to know, you. Sometimes you do feel like is anyone going to really pay attention to this phone call or this letter is nice to hear. And when you pre fill it out? I've seen I've done a lot of those actions on line where they're prefilled. And you just put your name and that makes it super easy. Right? I'll do that at some point. Yeah, exactly. Next step. Um, so we talked about your filmmaking? I know you have like a really fast background and a lot of different investigative journalism and but what kind of future projects do you have you have any new movies coming up, or anything we should know about?
Megan S. Smith
So, what I'm in the middle of now also is to write the stuff that I didn't have time to put into my 90-minute film, which is stuffed full of all kinds of factoids for women. There is stuff still that I didn't put in like the bracket gene and Angelina Jolie, and that whole situation, prophylactic mastectomies for that disease. And so are that it's a DNA problem anyway, so I'm going to put out a book called by the same name, whoops. And then my second film, I have to get out next year, which is on alternative cancer therapies called a new standard of care. I have a Facebook page for that. And then the third film I'd like to do on the politics of Lyme and it kind of expands on what under our skin did and just keep kind of rolling on that. Look at the science a little bit more. And then a fourth one I like to do on teeth. Oh my god, fillings, Mercury industry, all that stuff. Root canals. Yeah, yeah, metals.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, root canals. Yeah. We go to a holistic dentist, of course, this is like our life. We go to a holistic dentist, and really, I mean, it sounds all woo woo. But for anyone who doesn't know, it's really just, you know, they don't use mercury fillings. They don't do fluoride treatments, and you know, they have their certain protocol, and most of them, ours doesn't do root canals. They have different modalities and solutions for that. But going back to what you were talking about earlier, with Angelina Jolie and the BRCA gene. Can you kind of expand on that a little bit?
Megan S. Smith
I didn't know what the BRCA gene did. So, I googled it. And right there, it says BRCA gene is one of the genes in your body this that's responsible for DNA repair. And then I said, Hmm, so radiation damages DNA. They're telling women with the bracket gene to go get a mammogram twice a year. Yeah, I'm telling ultrasound or MRI. What Why are they having a room? Any of them? Even once a year? I know, I don't understand. Everything's turned upside down.
Lisa Beres
So much of this is so confusing. So, because they always ask, do you know with breast cancer patients, do you have the BRCA gene? So, like, it's this big, taboo bad thing, but you're saying it's not really a bad thing?
Megan S. Smith
It's not it's not. Your body should be as adept as it can to, to repair DNA, but you sure as heck don't want to be radiating the woman if she doesn't have all of her genes in place to replay the DNA damage from the radiation.
Lisa Beres
And you can have the BRCA gene and never get breast cancer, right? In Angelina Jolie's case, right, she had the BRCA gene, she didn't have breast cancer, but got a double mastectomy because her mother had breast cancer, is that right?
Megan S. Smith
They�re now starting to rethink the whole packaging. And they're thinking that they're over treating it and maybe it doesn't spread as much as they think it does.
Lisa Beres
Wow. Oh, no, this industry needs some, it needs an overhaul. So Megan, going back to the screening schedule, and how that has changed over the years. And what exactly has this resulted in as far as numbers?
Megan S. Smith
So about 10 years ago, the literature started to point that as many women were getting harmed from mammography outcomes, and we're being saved by it, because of overdiagnosis of this DCIS creature, and also things like radiation induced cancers, and you can die from the treatments of from conventional to cancer treatments, including the surgery. So, all that combined, they started saying, well, maybe we should if we just pull back, and especially this one group of women between 40 and 50 years old, they found out that mammograms were a wash. So, they said, Look, why don't we start screening women later? So, some people were saying screen some people are like, No, we still want to screen at 40. Those are the radiologists and then. And then they're the ones that said, well, let's start at 50. And then ACS tie up their tail went, How about 45? So, they agreed to be 20. Then they went to every other year, right for most of most of your life every other year. I don't know the exact Sorry, I'm but because everybody's different. And then at some point, it just doesn't make sense to have them anymore. So, they cut them out a little bit earlier. So, you can go to American Cancer Society's website and find out what the actual screen and say my film Dr. Holly talks about.
Lisa Beres
Okay, so I didn't even know. I know it had changed, but I didn't know what that was. So, it is every other year now? And why would you stop? At some point? You're just older women aren't going to probably get breast cancer?
Megan S. Smith
Um, yeah. Because when we get older, it's not estrogen driven. Those are the faster cancers and also is the chances are you're going to die from something else because the cancer is growing so slow, so we find it. Oh, okay. I see. Interesting. So yeah, 45 years old once. Yep. And then what would you say? What thermography? Like, how often would you recommend getting thermography? The thermographer. I go to one. One of them is in Troy, Virginia. And she said, you know, we're seeing a lot of these, they're seeing a lot of the threes, which is unusual used to be the score of two, which is healthy. Now it's more threes, because of all the stuff where you know, their pollution. Yeah. And young girls are coming in with breast problems, because of probably mostly because of the hormones are putting in our food. She's saying starting at 20 it's not going to hurt you, you know. So have your kids come in and start getting a test once every I think she said three years when you're in your 20s. Right? For women probably around 3035 start getting them every other year, every year. You know, some people get them twice a year.
Lisa Beres
It's no radiation. So, it really wouldn't hurt you. But I was when Ron and I were preparing for the show. I was trying to backtrack when I first had my thermogram. So thermogram ever and I was like, wow, why was I only in my early 30s. But I think because I did have a physician who was so proactive. And she happened to have the machine and she was like, Hey, you know, why not check it, it's not going to cause you any harm. And so, I'm really glad that I did. And back then I didn't do the ultrasound and to be honest that sometimes they recommend it and sometimes they don't for me. So just see you know what's going on. But going back to that estrogen positive breast cancer. That's a really hot topic at the healthy home Dream Team because we do teach people how to eliminate a lot of the estrogen mimics and the Zener estrogens that you get into your body through your lifestyle. And that checklist that we are giving free as part of this show takes you through your whole house and helps you eliminate those sources of estrogen in your body. plastics, food, you're eating out of water, you're drinking out of it, even in your water. If you're not filtering your water, and we go through your air, and cookware and all kinds of hidden even your skincare actually is loaded with endocrine disruptors So, so guys get that checklist and go through your home and take little baby steps. And pretty soon you will start to reduce your toxic body burden because there is so much estrogen dominance in our society today. And these young girls are getting breasts very early.
Megan S. Smith
And like you just said, getting even breast cancer probably earlier than ever before. They're getting their periods early.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, like what I've heard, like nine, nine years old, do you know how long they've been doing mammograms? Do you know when that first came in? Oh, 50 years? Wow. It's, it's like that quote, just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right. There's some quote like that. And I think what it is, is like, it's okay to say, Hey, we are evolving as an industry. We used to do it and now we're learning better ways. And let's, instead of people being paranoid to say, Oh, we made a mistake, that's not as good. Why don't we embrace and say, hey, it's okay, we're all we're all a work in progress industries are a work in progress. It's okay to have us something that wasn't as good. And now we discover something better. But denying the better thing is where the real problem right?
Megan S. Smith
And these 3d mammogram machines are now coming online fairly fast, and the infrastructure is getting, you know, they're getting there, their tentacles into the network. And I'm afraid it's going to be hard to turn around pretty soon.
Megan S. Smith
There�s a need for mammograms in some areas, but I don't know that it should be the only primary screening test there for you know, all women are, we're not a cookie cutter, you know, person here. So, let's look at each test differently for the women.
Lisa Beres
That's a great point. I love that point. There, there might be a place for mammograms too, but we are all different. We're biologically different. And we have different backgrounds and different everything. makeup. So, let's treat the individual like the individual.
Ron Beres
I know men get mammograms, who somehow because of obviously, they might detect a lump or something. What percentage of mammograms actually are done by men as like 1%?
Megan S. Smith
Yes, I don't I don't know. I'm sorry. I know it�s small. I wondered that too. It is small. And I actually did interview someone from my next film that had breast cancer, male.
Ron Beres
And, obviously thermograms would be easier for a male in general just to do.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, do they smash the male's breast? That would be difficult to even get a mammogram for a guy if that's even doable? Do you know the percentage of men that get breast cancer?
Megan S. Smith
No. It�s really small.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. Okay. It's always shocking that men can get it too, but it is a cancer. Well, ladies, I hope you have been enjoying today's show and have learned as much information as we have. You know, studies have shown that between 60 and 90% of all cancer deaths are preventable and determined by lifestyle choices. Be sure to get your free breast cancer proof your home checklist, which you can download at www.ronandlisa.com/podcast and that'll be in the show notes, along with all the other great resources we just talked about with Megan.
Ron Beres
Executive producer Robert Neil Marshall said, this is a film that can literally make a difference and save lives. Ladies, make it a girl�s night in and do yourself a favor. Watch us support this film. Thank you for joining us, Megan, and for being a brave warrior of truth and being so transparent, so Bye, everyone. Stay tuned next week for more tips on how to up level your health.
Narrator
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Narrator
How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts. listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy, you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, bow biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados, Ron and Lisa Beres.
Lisa Beres
Hello, friends, and welcome to today's show today is very extra special for us. Because we are talking about an incredibly important topic that affects everybody listening men and women. And today we are talking about breasts.
Ron Beres
And in fact, for those of you who aren't familiar with Rhonda Lisa, who haven't listened to all the podcasts or come to the site for content, you may not be familiar with the fact that unfortunately, our sister in law, she passed away of breast cancer about a year ago. And that's why this podcast is near and dear to our heart and we want to dedicate it to her. Her name is Odessa Beres and we really do miss her. And hopefully this this podcast sheds some light. We are also going to dedicate this podcast to Megan Smith is our expert today and her husband actually passed, Proctor Jones. We're dedicating this podcast to him as well. And we appreciate you guys listening today on this very important topic of thermography and how it can help you with breast screening.
Lisa Beres
And to all the women fighting breast cancer and to all the survivors. This is for you as well. So, ladies and gentlemen, listen up. We all know early detection of any disease is key for optimal health. But when us gals hear the word mammography, a feeling of nervousness tends to rush over our body, especially while undergoing the uncomfortable exam of having your breasts smashed by a total stranger between two cold metal plates, followed by nervously awaiting test results. That's a lot of anxiety. But wait, there's more. According to a study, during a decade of receiving mammograms, more than half of cancer free women will be summoned back for more testing because of false positive results. And about one in 12 will be referred for a biopsy. I can share with you that I have personally opted out of receiving mammograms. It all began in my early 30s. When I was seeing an integrative MD in Santa Monica, California. she advised me to try something called thermography a noninvasive early detection method for breast cancer screening, which by the way, is capable of detecting cancer precursors years before a tumor forms unlike mammography. thermography is radiation free. Over a 30-year period the use of mammograms, which aims to detect breast calcifications has led to over diagnosing 1.3 million US women, resulting in needless treatments for breast cancers that otherwise may not have spread. Alternatively, thermography or thermographic imaging works by detecting heat and increased blood flow. It emits zero radiation and is not affected by the density of breast tissue. The differences between thermography and mammography are vast and we are going to dive deep into this topic on today's show. So, you feel empowered and knowledgeable to make informed choices that are safe for you. Oh, and let me remind you, the best medicine is always prevention. We have a free breast cancer proof your home checklist that you can download in the show notes of this episode at random lisa.com forward slash podcast.
Ron Beres
Our special guest today is blowing the lid on the topic of breasts and the breast cancer screening industry. Megan s Smith is the writer, director and producer of a feature length documentary boobs the war on women's breasts, which garnered numerous Film Festival awards. Boobs looks into a controversial breast cancer screening test of mammography, but also considers a future protocol option for women thermography in conjunction with ultrasound with an MS in biology, and a thesis in molecular genetics, Megan currently works as a documentary filmmaker and a freelance investigative journalist in the areas of science and health. Without further ado, Megan Welcome to the show. Welcome Megan.
Megan S. Smith
Wow great enthusiasm for boobs.
Lisa Beres
I don't think that's unique to this show alone.
Ron Beres
Your film Boobs, which we just mentioned, The War on Women's Breasts, which, by the way, listeners, you can stream this online, you can actually buy the DVD and learn more at www.boobsdoc.com. So that's boobsdoc.com. And it investigates the controversy swirling around mammography, the most widely used breast cancer screening test today. So, Megan, how did you get into making this film? And what was your motivation?
Megan S. Smith
So, my, my husband passed up cancer 11 years ago, lung cancer, and I had three girlfriends done breast cancer, and within a three years time period, and all of their cancer had been in remission for at least 10 years, one woman 30 years. And I said, you know, something's wrong with this, this situation here. And I was I was already making a film on alternative cancer therapies, because some of these therapies were working on my husband before he went conventional. And I was halfway through editing that and I noticed that 10 minutes of my 90-minute film on that subject was on mammography, and I said, Okay, well, this is sucking up a lot of my film. And I decided to spin that out and make a short of that and put it into the film festivals. And my distributor cinema, Libra studio out of LA. I sent it to them. And they said, at the time, they weren't my distributor, but they saw the short and they said we really liked this. Can you expand it into a feature? And let's do it? I said sure. Wow, very impressive. Thank you. So, I stopped the first film. This one out as my first film the next one. Wow, hopefully next year.
Lisa Beres
So, in your film boobs, the war on women's breast, which I think is accurately titled, the future doctors in the film disclose how mammography can affect the lives of women through radiation induced cancer, trauma generated metastasis and unnecessary treatments such as chemo, radiation, and mastectomies. What are some common myths surrounding breast cancer screening today?
Megan S. Smith
So, I went through the literature and I found that a lot of the websites Association websites had the same recurring themes of these myths, and they literally use that word myth is so I kind of turned that around. I said, Well, no, actually, those are myths. But yeah, they say that mammography is early detection. Now actually, by the time you catch something on a test of anatomy, and like mammography, it's already it's already an encapsulated tumor. So that's already been there, you know, anywhere from two to 10 years. That's not really election. Right? We will, right,
Lisa Beres
I saw that you have a great section on your website with some facts. And I and I did see that fact. And I had never heard of that before, because I think a lot of women aren�t aware.
Megan S. Smith
Oh that, right. I wasn't either. Yeah. And then I found out about thermography, through Dr. Galina Galco, who's there, and Dr. Ben Johnson, there in LA, and thermography started to talk about it is actually it can be looked at as a test of prevention, because you're looking at inflammation in the breast. And that's what leads to cancer. If you know, you're one of your breasts is inflamed, then you can change your lifestyle, not easy to do, right? You can lifestyle, look at where their stress is coming from, and trying to reverse them. And so, prevention and mammography and even ultrasound is not is not that. It's too late by the time you catch it with one of those tests.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, it's very true. Our sister in law, who we talked about, at the top of the show, she originally was diagnosed with stage two, and then it came back four years later as stage four. So yeah, I do think that early changes in lifestyle, detecting that early and making those changes are really, really, really key, especially with breast cancer.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, another myth that's really important to understand is they tell us that over and over, they say that mammograms are low radiation, that term is really relative, because there's nothing that says at this, you know, at this step, this is when it goes from low to medium to high. There's nothing out there that says that. Yeah, what doctors are told my understanding is in med schools and also by their associations, is when a woman comes to you and says how much radiation is in these things, which I've asked my doctor and I got this answer is, it's the same as flying across the United States. That's the same amount of radiation per mammogram. Hmm. And that actually, when they're talking about that, they're spinning it. The doctors, I don't think understand this. But somebody does, yeah. Because it's actually that's the scattered radiation amount across your body from the mammogram. That's not the direct radiation that's going into your breast that can cause induced breast cancers years later. Wow. That's Yeah. When I found that out, I found that out from a Columbia University professor, and I said, Whoa, whoa, because I noticed there were two different ways they're talking about radiation.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, heavily targeted radiation, which is just not good for Anything I mean, I know thyroid cancer. I have read one of the causes, or maybe the main cause is directed radiation around the head. Well, if you're getting radiation on your breast, I mean to me that's pretty close. Right that I'll never send it in. Yeah, we're not talking about a little dental X ray here.
Ron Beres
Your lymph nodes as well, right? Isn't that part of the problem as well?
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, it is, by the closer you are, the more radiation it's going to get. So, they're spinning this and I asked radiologists. I asked three radiologists and three of them did not understand this difference. No. I'm not sure how they got through med school without understanding just different.
Ron Beres
Doctors?
Megan S. Smith
Not doctors, they�re radiologists,
Ron Beres
Radiologists. I'm sorry.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah. radiologists know how to read scans. Right. That's what they learn. But it's the radiation physicists. They're the ones that really understand the radiation. And that's why I was talking to her that I discovered this. I'm not saying that all radiologists don't know that this is going on. But nobody's talking about this and women are being led down this road of a slow radiation when in fact, it's not. Because a lot of us have dense breast tissue. And because of obesity, 8% of the women out there have what they consider large breasts and they have to have more than two views for each mammogram. Now they're doubling up on the on the radiation. Oh, wow. Breast you have to shoot more radiation through the dense right.
Lisa Beres
And isn't it true with breast implants to that it's very hard to get an accurate reading with the mammogram?
Megan S. Smith
Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know that much about that. But I do. I do know. Yeah, I think they have to increase the radiation load there.
Lisa Beres
Do you know off topic? Well, it is on topic? What are the guidelines now? Because I know it's changed like it used. And everybody's got a different age at which women should start doing mammograms and how often should you do it? I thought recently, they pulled back and said not every year anymore. Is that true?
Megan S. Smith
That's true, but about 10 years actually, believe it or not. It was after some studies came out. It was the Nordic Cochrane center was the one I think that brought this to everybody's attention. They're one of the most unbiased and well-respected research centers in the world. And they looked at the literature and said, you know, we're actually inducing some breast cancers with radiation. But most of the problem is with overdiagnosis, especially with the cancer called DCIS, which is 25% of breast cancers. They've actually deemed a stage zero, they had to make up a new stage number. Oh, it's actually a pre cancer but they call it ductal carcinoma inside to the word carcinoma. Women hear that and they freak out and they think I don't want this in my body and they're having prophylactic mastectomies. Leno, relative who's had that happen. I was like, zero. Wait, what you do a mastectomy at stage zero, I had never heard of that. So, you're saying like the body could obviously overcome that that would never maybe lead to cancer, but it's just more of a fear tactic does what people are thinking that they're over diagnosing this, and maybe they should be rethinking? I know, there's a big study out of UC San Francisco, Dr. esserman is looking at this right now, because they are over diagnosing this some of those cancers and wanting to not go anywhere, you don't know which ones are going to become invasive. But the thing I discovered about DCIS adult is also not being talked about is the lining of the ducks are made out of epithelial cells, those are much more prone to radiation damage, Okay, wow, radiating or rate, and that's where most cancers in the breast start is in the epithelial cells, that duct and they're more susceptible to radiation damage. So right, there is a reason to be radiating our breath, right, that are just totally opposite of what we should be doing. That's one of them.
Lisa Beres
That's crazy. It's like the killing of everything, including the healthy stuff, too. So that's, you know, the big issue with that, can you tell if a breast cancer is radiation induced? Can it's Can someone will they know that when they've been diagnosed? Or is that just one of the ways?
Megan S. Smith
They can�t tell that. I think they're using statistics and studies through the ages of what they've known since we, you know, drop the bomb, unfortunately, they get a lot of these statistics from and they extrapolate from there. So, you can't you can't absolutely prove it, but if somebody has x, you know, a gazillion my girlfriend had 40 mammograms. So, she finally you know, developed DCIS was it was it Yeah, all that compression and radiation, right? You know, she suspects it might be.
Lisa Beres
And, it�s not just that radiation, you combine that with other radiations that we're getting exposure to in our life right so we're getting ready we get radiation from the earth even and from, like you said, traveling and all different things. So obviously Now a lot of you know wireless radiation, so then you add that so it could just be a compounding issue. We don't want to put that burden on our body.
Ron Beres
What does the acronym DCIS stand for? Not to put you on the spot
Megan S. Smith
So ductal for breast ductal carcinoma insight to an insight to means in place it's a Latin term, like carcinoma. Obviously, that's the word that women hear carcinoma, and they're like, wait a minute, this is cancer and like not pre cancer. Yeah. Right.
Ron Beres
So typically diagnosed when they tell the patient when they say it's DCIS. Or they give them the full term as well.
Megan S. Smith
They do. They tell them you have DCIS and explain it, but the woman just hears the word carcinoma, and it's using them, and they're talking about changing the nomenclature of that cancer, but they haven't done it yet.
Ron Beres
Okay, well, the good news is, I'm aware of thermography because my wife, Lisa, she's only done this and she's never actually had a mammogram, thankfully. And I see that you haven't been shy about revealing the self-interest of the industry, the conflicts of interest in the medical research that's prevented really safer tests of thermography and ultrasound from wider use. Are these the most astonishing things that you learned in making the film? Or are there other bombshells that we should know about?
Megan S. Smith
Well, I think the fact that women aren't a radiation exposure was really that to me, I just kept, I was dumbfounded by the fact that we're not being paid, told the amount that we're actually getting, and quick, which can be up to 20 and 20 times the amount that's actually being pulled to us, which is ridiculous. No one is talking about this, which is surprising. But women also are given informed consent, because of all of these things combined. You know, the film goes into all these different, you know, I was going down these rabbit holes, but they were each important rabbit hole. Yeah. More information. And the fact that none of this is being told to us, I think the doctors, you know, I think a lot of them don't know, why don't they know, they don't have time to do the research. And their associations aren't telling them the correct information for whatever reason, right? The grant woods, the former Attorney General of Arizona, I actually interviewed him and he was the one who brought up this informed consent. And I realized, wow, this is crazy. And he said, it could it be breaking some laws, but they're not telling us this? He said, she said he thought consumer protection laws were definitely being broken.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. I mean, you should know you should be told exactly how much radiation you're going to get right? Yeah, yeah. And then make your choice. Make it like you said, Your informed consent. Wow. So, this might come as a shock to some listeners. But mammography is a 20 billion with a �b� a $20 billion industry, facilitated by insurance companies and governmental agencies that prevents the widespread use of alternative methods for breast cancer screening. Now, I personally have shelled out money out of pocket each time that I've had my thermography and ultrasound because my insurance does not cover it. And I'm sure yours doesn't either. Is there anything else not in the film that you'd like to divulge?
Megan S. Smith
Actually, I want to expand on what you're saying about the insurance because it's important to understand this. So, mammography is the only test that's the primary approved by insurance for being a primary screening tool. Everything else is an adjunct to that. So, you have to get the mammogram first, before your doctor, unless there's some weird circumstance, they'll have, you'll have to get the mammogram before you get the ultrasound and you know, the thermography. They're not going to pay for anyway. Yeah. But a lot of women with dense breasts, I found that ultrasound is actually better for probably at least 50% of us than mammograms at detecting tumors because the ultrasound can see through the white tissue of the breast of the dense tissue better. So why aren't we just doing the ultrasound first? So, the mammogram? No, you have to do the mammogram first so they can make their money.
Lisa Beres
The insurance company covers it. So, if the if you get the mammogram, and then your doctor says, Oh, we need to see more, we're going to order an ultrasound, they'll pay that. But like, in my case, in my case, I skip all that. And I just go straight to the thermography. And then they usually do an ultrasound with me too. And to be honest, for anybody listening, they are paying less these treatments, there is no pain, there's no discomfort, they're quick, your thermography takes about 15 minutes, and nothing even touches you it's all infrared camera, and then the ultrasound. Everybody knows what an ultrasound is. That's super painless to so the experience is so much more pleasant to and I just guess you do pay. But I have to be honest, I think the prices have come down because they have become really more popular. As people become more informed, and they become more readily available. 200 $250 that's probably pretty standard for thermography. I'd really encourage you to check that out in your area and be proactive with your health. Like it's just an underlying theme that Ron and I are always sharing in every area. And today's topic is no exception, right?
Megan S. Smith
There's no radiation in either one of those tests. Yeah. And ultrasound at the very least ultrasound should be approved as the primary screening tool. So, women don't have to get the mammogram if they have dense breast tissue. That's just that's just crazy, right?
Lisa Beres
Why go through that right? Just go straight to the ultrasound. Yeah.
Ron Beres
Hey, Megan, as part of your investigation. Did you discover anything from a liability perspective? So, if it's a thorough if the mammogram, sorry, if the mammogram is actually missing, you know, the opportunity to find something in many cases, aren't they liable if you come back shortly thereafter, and let's say you get a thermogram and identifies a cancerous growth.
Megan S. Smith
Well, a lot of luck. of the cancers are being discovered months after a mammogram That happens a lot. Even the American Cancer Society said that that happens frequently because the mammogram is so inaccurate because, again, mostly because this dense breast tissue, I don't think the doctors because it's the standard of care for mammography first adjunct only if they find something, they'll do an adjunct of ultrasound or another mammogram or an MRI. Otherwise, they're not being held accountable now. So, they always hide behind the standard of care, because that's, it's a legal term. And it's what the average doctor would do. But the standard care because of the insurance guidelines set by Medicare and followed by all the private insurance, you have to do a mammogram first. So, I've never heard any lawsuits.
Ron Beres
It may get many the Rams are like a million dollars for the machinery, right that the office is investing in. Well, how much would it cost of a thermography machine is it was a few hundred dollars� worth why wanted to switch the protocol?
Megan S. Smith
Because radiologists don't want to learn another, another machine. But the camera itself is to get a decent one. And you were from probably starting at least 5000, something like that. The software, I think he can get a really good program somewhere between 20 to 30,000. For the whole software in the camera, I don't want to give you figures because although he's here, but it was something like that. It was a lot more reasonable. But again, to try and change this paradigm is going to take a groundswell of women saying, okay, we're tired of this. We've been doing mammograms for 50 years now this radiation, the squishy of the breast makes no sense. Let's you know, women are talking to each other. And there are all kinds of horror stories are coming out about going back for a second mammogram because your breasts are too dense. And now they're shooting you with all kinds of tons of radiation. So yeah, women are talking were concerned.
Lisa Beres
Women are talking it's good to get the conversation up. And I did hear the dense breast issue is very common in younger women especially
Megan S. Smith
fused about this, supposedly your breasts are denser when you're younger. But then everybody I talked to our breast seem to be getting denser as we're getting older. So, we're not a freshman like Who are these fatty tissues, women that they're talking about? It's just percent of us. I don't know anybody. And then everybody's saying the same thing.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, that's interesting. Wow. Well, we have a caller. Megan, if you're open to taking a call. Hi, Samantha, what is your question for Megan?
Caller, Samantha
Hi. Thank you. So, are you expecting any pushback from medical entities or practitioners?
Megan S. Smith
Generally speaking, when you go up against conventional therapies, there's going to be pushed back, the radiology associations are not going to like this. I don't know who else is going to be thrown a fit. But you know, they're the ones that are going to be bucking because like I said, they don't want to radiologist don't want to learn one more new thing that 3d mammograms is already throwing them into having to learn a whole new machine. That's a whole other story. By the way, those most of those machines have twice the amount of radiation as what we're using now. Because you have to have app, I'm going to sidebar now. But the machines have to have a software or they take two sets of pictures. And if you don't ask the facility, if they have the software, you're getting twice the amount of radiation. And they don't tell you that you have to ask that question.
Lisa Beres
Well, you have to be gosh, you have to be such your own health proponent nowadays, it just goes, when it comes to food and personal care. I mean, the list goes on and on. And especially with your health care, you really do. Samantha, I hope that answered your question.
Caller, Samantha
Makes it a lot easier to be your own advocate.
Lisa Beres
Thank you so much for calling in. Today, I visit an integrative Center here in Orange County, California, which is where we live, and they offer thermography in conjunction with ultrasound. As it turns out, when used in combination, these two screening tests also act as a much earlier detection tool, as we talked about earlier. Are doctors aware of mammography�s detriments now?
Megan S. Smith
They are not to the full extent of what what's in my film, again, when the radiologist doesn�t even know the difference between radiation units. That's a little scary. I kind of goes from there. So, I'm hoping that a lot of doctors actually see this film because I put the medical literature rate in there for them. It was actually the American Cancer Society. When I interviewed Otis Brawley, who's their chief medical officer. He was the one who said, you know, mammograms are suboptimal. mammography is a sub optimal test, and we need a better test. And so, I went with him Dr. My Galco from LA actually brought her to DC and she met with Dr. Brawley. And by the end of the class, he said thermography has been tested. It doesn't work. It's, you know, a long time ago, they looked at this and I said now Look, let's we need to talk to you about this. So, what do you got the presentation from her, he actually. His mind got changed. And he said, you know, I could see them doing a bigger study on this and, and seeing if this protocol of ultrasound with thermography might work. thermography is the one that catches it earlier. ultrasounds, I can catch it earlier than mammogram unless you have dense breasts you want, they're about the same. But thermography is the one we need to get into this mix. It catches the inflammation.
Lisa Beres
It catches that earliest. Right, right.
Ron Beres
Well, Dr. Otis Brawley. That was incredibly brave of him and our statement that he actually made in regards to that. But why aren't other doctors speaking up about this?
Megan S. Smith
Well, you know, doctors go through med school, and they're, they're taught the party line, and a lot of them just go down that line. Like I said, they don't have time to study things. They learn the information through their associations, talking to their, you know, they talk amongst themselves. And unless somebody goes in and breaks that mold, which is really hard to do, it's hard to change the paradigm. But I think the way to do it, I've already been talking to Congress about this a little bit and see if I can maybe sway some, I used to lobby Congress.
Lisa Beres
Oh, right. Yeah. The background on that What a perfect segue of your, all your different expertise is going together. Wow. And I think I wonder too; are they is their fear of being ostracized in their industry?
Megan S. Smith
I think that goes into the heart of it. Because if they do, a lot of times, they'll be get called before the medical board, hey, you're not you're not, you know, following standard of care, you're going out there outside the box. And sometimes if they're using a protocol, like the people with the supplements, you know, FDA will get involved. That's, that's when it gets really ugly. Yeah, they're kind of they're there. It's, you know, one doctor from Stanford said, you know, it's really a goose-stepping kind of thing. They all go step behind each other with the same mentality because they're afraid to get out of line.
Ron Beres
And, that�s just that's not the way to, oh, no, that's not innovative.
Lisa Beres
They take an oath, they take an oath to do no harm, right? That Hippocrates, I think, sometimes they lose sight of that along the journey or not speaking out, and it takes a brave person to do that. I'm just happy that there are so many like functional integrative MDS that are very much embracing this, and that women do have the choice to, to go out and make that choice for themselves. I think that's really the message of today's podcast is Hey, do your research, come to your own conclusion. But guess what, be aware and know that you have choices.
Megan S. Smith
And, you know, when I was interviewing these doctors for my next film, about across the board, every single one of them was had been harassed by the medical boards or brought before them or FDA and rarely are they found guilty, man, what does that tell you? Right here that tells you that they're just awful What's going on? They can't. Or they're, that's terrible.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, I think we see it on a lot of industries right now. Yeah. So many women aren't aware that according to the FDA thermography has been cleared since 1982, as an adjunct for detecting breast cancer. So, this is safe. The FDA says it's safe. How are women reacting to the messages in the film? What kind of feedback Are you hearing?
Megan S. Smith
I'm hearing positive things. I think before they see the film, they're like, how can you dare go up against mammography or, you know, a wonderful machine, a lot of women, their cancers were, you know, caught early by mammograms, so some resistance from them, but in this film would probably be hard for women. If you do have cancer, and you've had you've had treatment, I can see where this film might be hard to watch, quite frankly, I do feel bad about that. But the women that have not, you know, gone through this yet those I guess probably my audience, it's a learning curve for everybody. But both ultrasound and thermography have been FDA approved. And it's just thermography never went through the regulations like ultrasound and mammography did or MRI, it needs to be regulated more, because right now a lot of people just pay, I can go grab a camera on the thermographer. And that's scary. Oh, that you do your due diligence. And I actually give a website. I don't have it handy right now. But there's a website in my film that has, these are the people that would be recommended by the person that interprets my thermograms. And he's done his due diligence. He's worked with the grandfather of thermography. Or he passed away. Dr. Hobbins.
Ron Beres
Let's make sure we get that. And maybe in the show notes later, if you would mind. Later.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. Let's add that to the show notes. And also, is there a link where women could go or I guess men to right, where people could go to find a thermography in their area?
Megan S. Smith
So, this would be that this would be where they find somebody in there.
Lisa Beres
Oh, excellent. Okay, and but you're saying we need a certification for these particular radiologists?
Megan S. Smith
Right now, you can go through some easy training course and become a thermographer. But you really need to know what you're doing because you're working with people's lives here. have the right equipment, you need to be able to run the equipment correctly and you need a good interpreter.
Lisa Beres
Doesn't it legally have to be read by a radiologist? Are you saying, oh, it doesn't? I have a radiologist that reads mine. It's the labs are sent out to radiology.
Megan S. Smith
Somebody doesn't have to necessarily be a radiologist; they just need to be well advised and how to interpret the thermogram. Right. Yeah, I mean, radiologist, they will learn how to do this and be great, because then you also have a medical doctor on board.
Lisa Beres
I would think so.
Ron Beres
With your experience in Washington DC. Do you see this changing anytime soon? Or do you think this is going to be an uphill battle to get everyone focused on regulating thermography?
Megan S. Smith
It�s going be an uphill battle, anytime you go against conventional. Now that the film is out, I'm going to start making on my Facebook page. And wherever else I can figure out how to get this going. I'm maybe putting out petitions for women to sign that we need to change this we want. We want to study ultrasound and thermography on and then spread the whole dense breast tissue. There's a whole bunch of reasons you could you could state for wanting to change this. So. And there's a lot of women on the hill now. So, I think they're going to be listening. And we'll see. But I do need some people underneath me, just to say, yeah, we agree with you. So, it's not just me.
Ron Beres
Not your first rodeo because you actually had a groundbreaking report on the inaccuracy of Lyme disease testing in the Washington Post.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, I had Lyme disease back in 2007. And I've been misdiagnosed for a year and a half. I finally found out that when I got through my brain fog that the tests were inaccurate. And so, I called up the Washington Post, I said, hey, guess what? And they said, Oh, we didn't realize that was going on? I said, Yeah, this isn't being reported. And these doctors don't understand these tests are inaccurate. So, they were very kind of let me write a little a little deadness for the paper. Yeah. And since then, it's in my local paper, I wrote about the underreporting of Lyme, which was just as important because doctors didn't know how pervasive it was. My doctor said, it doesn't exist in Virginia, like Well, my dogs both habitat it so you know, right after that, the incidence went way up. And now they're calling it an epidemic. Wow, I still want to talk about Lyme disease, either. But that's a whole other subject. I hope to do my third film on Lyme disease. So, you have carried yourself I have using alternatives.
Ron Beres
Yes. Great job, Megan.
Megan S. Smith
Yeah, fantastic. It is incurable. For the most part. They're conventional. Johns Hopkins said, you know, we can't help you. We can put you on IV antibiotics, the rest of your life on and off, and that's best forgotten. I'm like, well, that's not the answer.
Ron Beres
Yeah, okay, well, besides watching the film, and learning more at boobs, doc.com. So boobsdoc.com, or any other call to actions for women to partake in?
Megan S. Smith
So, at the end of the film, I give women a to do list of to write your congressmen and senators, because that really does help and write your attorney general of your state. And I tell I tell the women exactly what to ask in a letter really important that they literally do listen to this stuff on the hill, because that's how they decided.
Lisa Beres
That's their job. They better be. Now, that's good to know, you. Sometimes you do feel like is anyone going to really pay attention to this phone call or this letter is nice to hear. And when you pre fill it out? I've seen I've done a lot of those actions on line where they're prefilled. And you just put your name and that makes it super easy. Right? I'll do that at some point. Yeah, exactly. Next step. Um, so we talked about your filmmaking? I know you have like a really fast background and a lot of different investigative journalism and but what kind of future projects do you have you have any new movies coming up, or anything we should know about?
Megan S. Smith
So, what I'm in the middle of now also is to write the stuff that I didn't have time to put into my 90-minute film, which is stuffed full of all kinds of factoids for women. There is stuff still that I didn't put in like the bracket gene and Angelina Jolie, and that whole situation, prophylactic mastectomies for that disease. And so are that it's a DNA problem anyway, so I'm going to put out a book called by the same name, whoops. And then my second film, I have to get out next year, which is on alternative cancer therapies called a new standard of care. I have a Facebook page for that. And then the third film I'd like to do on the politics of Lyme and it kind of expands on what under our skin did and just keep kind of rolling on that. Look at the science a little bit more. And then a fourth one I like to do on teeth. Oh my god, fillings, Mercury industry, all that stuff. Root canals. Yeah, yeah, metals.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, root canals. Yeah. We go to a holistic dentist, of course, this is like our life. We go to a holistic dentist, and really, I mean, it sounds all woo woo. But for anyone who doesn't know, it's really just, you know, they don't use mercury fillings. They don't do fluoride treatments, and you know, they have their certain protocol, and most of them, ours doesn't do root canals. They have different modalities and solutions for that. But going back to what you were talking about earlier, with Angelina Jolie and the BRCA gene. Can you kind of expand on that a little bit?
Megan S. Smith
I didn't know what the BRCA gene did. So, I googled it. And right there, it says BRCA gene is one of the genes in your body this that's responsible for DNA repair. And then I said, Hmm, so radiation damages DNA. They're telling women with the bracket gene to go get a mammogram twice a year. Yeah, I'm telling ultrasound or MRI. What Why are they having a room? Any of them? Even once a year? I know, I don't understand. Everything's turned upside down.
Lisa Beres
So much of this is so confusing. So, because they always ask, do you know with breast cancer patients, do you have the BRCA gene? So, like, it's this big, taboo bad thing, but you're saying it's not really a bad thing?
Megan S. Smith
It's not it's not. Your body should be as adept as it can to, to repair DNA, but you sure as heck don't want to be radiating the woman if she doesn't have all of her genes in place to replay the DNA damage from the radiation.
Lisa Beres
And you can have the BRCA gene and never get breast cancer, right? In Angelina Jolie's case, right, she had the BRCA gene, she didn't have breast cancer, but got a double mastectomy because her mother had breast cancer, is that right?
Megan S. Smith
They�re now starting to rethink the whole packaging. And they're thinking that they're over treating it and maybe it doesn't spread as much as they think it does.
Lisa Beres
Wow. Oh, no, this industry needs some, it needs an overhaul. So Megan, going back to the screening schedule, and how that has changed over the years. And what exactly has this resulted in as far as numbers?
Megan S. Smith
So about 10 years ago, the literature started to point that as many women were getting harmed from mammography outcomes, and we're being saved by it, because of overdiagnosis of this DCIS creature, and also things like radiation induced cancers, and you can die from the treatments of from conventional to cancer treatments, including the surgery. So, all that combined, they started saying, well, maybe we should if we just pull back, and especially this one group of women between 40 and 50 years old, they found out that mammograms were a wash. So, they said, Look, why don't we start screening women later? So, some people were saying screen some people are like, No, we still want to screen at 40. Those are the radiologists and then. And then they're the ones that said, well, let's start at 50. And then ACS tie up their tail went, How about 45? So, they agreed to be 20. Then they went to every other year, right for most of most of your life every other year. I don't know the exact Sorry, I'm but because everybody's different. And then at some point, it just doesn't make sense to have them anymore. So, they cut them out a little bit earlier. So, you can go to American Cancer Society's website and find out what the actual screen and say my film Dr. Holly talks about.
Lisa Beres
Okay, so I didn't even know. I know it had changed, but I didn't know what that was. So, it is every other year now? And why would you stop? At some point? You're just older women aren't going to probably get breast cancer?
Megan S. Smith
Um, yeah. Because when we get older, it's not estrogen driven. Those are the faster cancers and also is the chances are you're going to die from something else because the cancer is growing so slow, so we find it. Oh, okay. I see. Interesting. So yeah, 45 years old once. Yep. And then what would you say? What thermography? Like, how often would you recommend getting thermography? The thermographer. I go to one. One of them is in Troy, Virginia. And she said, you know, we're seeing a lot of these, they're seeing a lot of the threes, which is unusual used to be the score of two, which is healthy. Now it's more threes, because of all the stuff where you know, their pollution. Yeah. And young girls are coming in with breast problems, because of probably mostly because of the hormones are putting in our food. She's saying starting at 20 it's not going to hurt you, you know. So have your kids come in and start getting a test once every I think she said three years when you're in your 20s. Right? For women probably around 3035 start getting them every other year, every year. You know, some people get them twice a year.
Lisa Beres
It's no radiation. So, it really wouldn't hurt you. But I was when Ron and I were preparing for the show. I was trying to backtrack when I first had my thermogram. So thermogram ever and I was like, wow, why was I only in my early 30s. But I think because I did have a physician who was so proactive. And she happened to have the machine and she was like, Hey, you know, why not check it, it's not going to cause you any harm. And so, I'm really glad that I did. And back then I didn't do the ultrasound and to be honest that sometimes they recommend it and sometimes they don't for me. So just see you know what's going on. But going back to that estrogen positive breast cancer. That's a really hot topic at the healthy home Dream Team because we do teach people how to eliminate a lot of the estrogen mimics and the Zener estrogens that you get into your body through your lifestyle. And that checklist that we are giving free as part of this show takes you through your whole house and helps you eliminate those sources of estrogen in your body. plastics, food, you're eating out of water, you're drinking out of it, even in your water. If you're not filtering your water, and we go through your air, and cookware and all kinds of hidden even your skincare actually is loaded with endocrine disruptors So, so guys get that checklist and go through your home and take little baby steps. And pretty soon you will start to reduce your toxic body burden because there is so much estrogen dominance in our society today. And these young girls are getting breasts very early.
Megan S. Smith
And like you just said, getting even breast cancer probably earlier than ever before. They're getting their periods early.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, like what I've heard, like nine, nine years old, do you know how long they've been doing mammograms? Do you know when that first came in? Oh, 50 years? Wow. It's, it's like that quote, just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right. There's some quote like that. And I think what it is, is like, it's okay to say, Hey, we are evolving as an industry. We used to do it and now we're learning better ways. And let's, instead of people being paranoid to say, Oh, we made a mistake, that's not as good. Why don't we embrace and say, hey, it's okay, we're all we're all a work in progress industries are a work in progress. It's okay to have us something that wasn't as good. And now we discover something better. But denying the better thing is where the real problem right?
Megan S. Smith
And these 3d mammogram machines are now coming online fairly fast, and the infrastructure is getting, you know, they're getting there, their tentacles into the network. And I'm afraid it's going to be hard to turn around pretty soon.
Megan S. Smith
There�s a need for mammograms in some areas, but I don't know that it should be the only primary screening test there for you know, all women are, we're not a cookie cutter, you know, person here. So, let's look at each test differently for the women.
Lisa Beres
That's a great point. I love that point. There, there might be a place for mammograms too, but we are all different. We're biologically different. And we have different backgrounds and different everything. makeup. So, let's treat the individual like the individual.
Ron Beres
I know men get mammograms, who somehow because of obviously, they might detect a lump or something. What percentage of mammograms actually are done by men as like 1%?
Megan S. Smith
Yes, I don't I don't know. I'm sorry. I know it�s small. I wondered that too. It is small. And I actually did interview someone from my next film that had breast cancer, male.
Ron Beres
And, obviously thermograms would be easier for a male in general just to do.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, do they smash the male's breast? That would be difficult to even get a mammogram for a guy if that's even doable? Do you know the percentage of men that get breast cancer?
Megan S. Smith
No. It�s really small.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. Okay. It's always shocking that men can get it too, but it is a cancer. Well, ladies, I hope you have been enjoying today's show and have learned as much information as we have. You know, studies have shown that between 60 and 90% of all cancer deaths are preventable and determined by lifestyle choices. Be sure to get your free breast cancer proof your home checklist, which you can download at www.ronandlisa.com/podcast and that'll be in the show notes, along with all the other great resources we just talked about with Megan.
Ron Beres
Executive producer Robert Neil Marshall said, this is a film that can literally make a difference and save lives. Ladies, make it a girl�s night in and do yourself a favor. Watch us support this film. Thank you for joining us, Megan, and for being a brave warrior of truth and being so transparent, so Bye, everyone. Stay tuned next week for more tips on how to up level your health.
Narrator
This episode of the healthy home hacks podcast has ended. But be sure to subscribe for more healthy living strategies and tactics to help you create the healthy home you always dreamed of. And don't forget to rate and review so we can continue to bring you the best content. See you on the next episode.
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