In this episode, Baubiologists, Ron and Lisa Beres, speak with doctors Justyna and Victor Sanders about the risks, symptoms, and outcomes of the current COVID-19 pandemic. We delve into which portion of the population is at the highest risk of contracting COVID-19 and take a deep dive into what the short-term and long-term effects are. We discuss treatments that can help prevent acquiring the virus, surprising foods that can keep your immune system strong, what’s soap got to do with, and finally what remedies are lurking on the hopeful-horizon.
You’ll also discover what the hack optimizing versus boosting your immune system really means. You’ll learn how to prepare your immune system to be well-equipped to fight the infectious disease known as COVID-19. Husband and wife, Dr.’s Justyna, and Victor Sanders will share their thoughts on which plant-based foods can aid in the prevention of the novel coronavirus and the supplements you should NOT take if you contract COVID-19. Lastly, the dynamic doctor duo will unpack herd immunity and antibodies and share a peek into what the future landscape looks like for us all.
This episode is brought to you by The Building Biology Institute, a non-profit organization that is dedicated to the holistic science that you can embrace in their seminars, courses, certification programs, fact sheets and videos on designing, building, remediating health-supporting structures in harmony with planetary ecology. Join informative thinkers and stay up to date with new research on their Facebook page and find out more and become a member online HERE.
Listen to all episodes of Healthy Home Hacks on your favorite podcast app.
iTunes Spotify Stitcher
Rate, Review, & Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
“I love Ron & Lisa and Healthy Home Hacks.” <– If that sounds like you, please consider rating and reviewing our new show! This helps us support more people — just like you — regain their health, protect their loved ones, and enjoy more energy. Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then be sure to let us know what you loved most about this episode or the entire show.
Also, if you haven’t done so already, subscribe to the podcast. Subscribe now!
Episode Links:
Lisa Beres
This episode of healthy home hacks is sponsored by the building biology Institute to learn more about creating indoor environments that support health and wellness visit their free resources at building biology institute.org
Narrator
How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury. healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados. Ron and Lisa Beres.
Lisa Beres
We can't talk to two educate physicians today without bringing up the pink elephant in the room the current coronavirus pandemic. You can't go anywhere today without having a conversation about the spread, the restrictions, the lockdowns, the mandated masks, and the fear surrounding this unprecedented time in our world today. But rather than a waiter, your mother or your BFF, giving you faulty information, our guests today are going to clear the COVID-19 clutter Dr. Justino Sanders is a California based medical doctor and medical lifestyle transformation specialist. Dr. Justyna is the CEO and founder of prescription lifestyle calm, whose objective is to promote health, wellness and prevention by using whole plant-based nutrition as medicine and unifying evidence-based disciplines of medicine into one system. She encourages the use of personalized medicine with a focus on whole-body health and the underlying causes of disease and she fears lifestyle as medicine. Dr. Victor Sanders is a licensed California based physician whose board-certified in internal medicine and specializes in hospital medicine. Dr. Victor attended St. George's University School of Medicine and completed his residency in internal medicine at the University of Arizona. He is currently working at hold Hospital in Newport Beach, California. Dr. Victor has worked closely with hospital-based dieticians to revamp their patient menu and provide healthy vegan options OMG I'm like love that. As the lead physician for the inpatient diabetes management team. He's collaborated with diabetic nurse educators to improve the treatment of diabetes in hospitalized patients. Dr. Victor educates his patients and the public on the benefits of a whole food plant-based lifestyle. Welcome both of you to the show.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Thanks for having me so, so much. Let's dive into it. So what risk factors are associated with contracting COVID-19 and are worsening the symptoms or outcomes of that. So, there's various different risk factors and everything that we're going to talk about today is evidence-based. And everything that we talked about, basically, on our platforms with patients with my clients and other people is all evidence-based, and it's found in the medical literature. So, what we're finding is that cardiovascular diseases, as well as people who have kidney diseases, chronic respiratory diseases, such as COPD or asthma, these are major risk factors as well as obesity and hypertension. So, we're finding that anyone with this, whether it's comorbidities a mix of all of these, some of these or even one of these, puts them at greater risk for contracting COVID-19 and also puts them at greater risk for having more severe
Dr. Victor Sanders
We're manifestations of the illness and infection itself. And the long-term consequences of that. Go ahead, doctor. But other risk factors, obviously, we've heard a lot about people's age. So advanced age and that comes with the older you are people in society tend to have more of these chronic medical conditions that she just mentioned, as well as diabetes, type two diabetes, you know, hypertension, heart disease, these all kind of come in one package. So, your risks, if you have one of these, your risk of getting the others are greater as well. And what we've seen is that these risk factors increase your chance of death by a factor of 12. Hmm, a factor of 12. Wow, massive. And just by having one of these, as opposed to multiple ones gives you a risk factor increased by six. And this is coming out of the CDC Morbidity and mortality weekly report, as of about last week. So, this is some of the most current data that we're finding.
Ron Beres
I did read in a Forbes article just recently that the majority of deaths are coming from a very small population about 6% of the population, specifically maybe around nursing homes in those areas. And that kind of is in alignment, what you're talking about with age. Did you read that by chance as well, I want to comment on that?
Dr. Victor Sanders
I did not read that. But I can give you some information about like Orange County, where we have, you know, half of the nursing homes out here are now reporting outbreaks. That's about it about 70 in Orange County. So that's up from about 21 to two weeks ago. So, we're seeing the spike out here. And obviously, we're seeing a greater amount of mortality coming from patients who are in these facilities because they're obviously older and have much more chronic medical conditions as well. So, we are still seeing the deaths in that subset of population who are older. And Dr. Justyna. Can you repeat those risk factors again, just like name the however many of these are?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
There's cardiovascular risk factors kidney disease, we have hypertension, obesity, type two diabetes. Also, if you're pregnant, you're more likely to contract it, you have a 5% greater risk of contracting it. And yeah, so various different comorbidities. Wow, that's and that's a lot of the population that you just mentioned. Yeah. Especially because a lot of people don't really realize that so many people have heart disease. In fact, children as young as 10, we've seen on autopsies have these fatty streaks in the airways so those are signs already of heart disease, a lot of people don't know that it's linked to the standard American diet. So, if we just think of it in a broad sense, it would make sense that most of us are at risk.
Lisa Beres
Right and that's an interesting the standard American diet which a lot of people also call the sad because it is a sad diet. So, would you say like those fatty arteries, whatever you got the fatty streaks Could you be thin but on a poor diet, and have that. Okay, so that's really interesting because I think a lot of people think that Oh, well you know, if they're not heavy but they're eating a lot of fast food and fried foods, right? They think oh, I'm okay. You know, I'm not overweight, I'm not going to have risks for exactly.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, most times we're seeing, of course, someone who's obese has other things metabolic problems, such as type two diabetes and other cardiovascular types of diseases, like we're talking about, but just because you're skinny does not mean you can't contract type two diabetes or any other disease such as heart disease,
Lisa Beres
Huh, skinny fat. I've heard that term skinny fat.
Ron Beres
Right? Does it mean to pregnancy that really perked my interest? As far as does the baby? Is there any research or maybe it's too early to tell? Do they get COVID as well or can the mother have COVID and not give it to the child?
Dr. Victor Sanders
So that has been a concern. I have not seen any, like hard and fast research that shows there is a risk of contraction, because if you think back into reproduction, the blood supply of the babies is not linked directly or commingled with the blood supply of the mob. though they're two separate things, because if they were together, the body would recognize the baby as like a foreign body or an invader, and would go after the fetus and attack it. So, the blood supplies are separate. So, we don't yet know if there is any crossover of the virus crossing over from the maternal to the fetal circulation. Shouldn't there be a risk? Sure, but we don't have that hard data yet. But we have seen reports that infants who are born can and have contracted COVID I just heard today; three triplets were born with cars. Yeah, and I think I don't know if the mother had it, but I thought that was so bizarre. Interesting. Yeah. Well, so everybody's worried about contracting the virus today. All of us are but are there any known residual or lasting effects after being diagnosed with COVID-19? So, I think before we answer that, it's really important to note that it seems
So far in the literature that around 80% of cases, so people who do contract it will be mild to moderate. But what that means exactly we don't know, because moderate cases we've seen can and have had really bad outcomes. Yeah, so 80% are going to fully recover from symptoms or from the infection, obviously, you're gonna have people who are asymptomatic, didn't even know it. Then you have people who are really, really sick. And so, you're looking at 20% of the people who are infected withstand the risk of having some long-term effects. So obviously, you're seeing long term residual damage to the lung. So, your ability to exchange oxygen and carbon dioxide.
I've actually had patients who have had physically lung tissue missing on CAT scans of their chest, there's holes or lung tissue. Wow. The only thing that's ever known to do that to actually destroy lung tissue that we see a lot in people's emphysema, from smoking, but they're missing tissue. So, your oxygen diffusing capacity is reduced. And so, you could have, you know, rapid decline in lung function, surviving this. And a lot of people with severe disease who get intubated on a mechanical ventilator breathing machine. They'll be on there for three to four weeks. So if you're in a bed, you're not moving, so you're wasting your muscle mass is going, Yeah, you're chemically sedated and chemically induced coma from the medications we have to give because otherwise if you were awake with a tube in your mouth, you would be fighting it the entire time. So, you have to knock them out. Coming out of that you have ICU, delirium, cognitive impairment on top of a critical illness biopsy where you're so weak, you have to relearn how to walk.
Lisa Beres
Wow, oh my gosh, so and they're not eating food, right? Are they just on IV at that point?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Well, they're on you can do a couple of different ways of nutrition when someone's critically ill not able to swallow the first off is a nasal gastric tube with small to put through the nose into the stomach. Nothing. Yeah, you're basically getting admitted to feed solution, which is basically artificial nutrition created from a pharmaceutical company, the other is TPN, or we call total parenteral. Nutrition is nutrition given through the IV into your vein, completely different formulation. Now you're not using your gut, which as we've known if you don't use it, you lose it in terms of gut, and you start having integrity of the gut wall breakdown and translocation of bacteria, increasing the risk of other superimposed infections. And your
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Immune system is vulnerable at that point because it affects your microbiome and everything else. And since we know the microbiome, which is trillions, hundred trillion bacteria that live in your gut lining, which are responsible for the integrity of your immune system. Now on top of it, you're gonna even have potentially a further decline in your health because now you're affecting that at that level.
Lisa Beres
Oh, you don't even think about the gut when you think of somebody, you know, in that sort of sedated state for that long. Like when you said if you don't use it, you lose it. I never knew that. So, it's actually healthy to eat as long as you're eating healthy.
Dr. Victor Sanders
The nasal gastric tube is like a not a long-term solution because you increase the risk of sinusitis and erosion of your esophagus and nasal mucosa. So now you have to put a surgically implanted gastrostomy to what we call a G tube, which is a tube going from the outside of your body into your stomach or your tube feeds goes, now you continue to use your gut. Oh, wow.
Lisa Beres
That's a very small percentage of people that are experiencing that. You say 20%? Because 80% will recover? Yeah, that's the good news. If for our listeners, I mean, that's actually good news here. And then what was the percentage of people that end up on a ventilator? You know, based on different studies and different outcomes and different centers that are reporting you're looking at sometimes I think, an average about 40% of seriously, people go on a ventilator. Wow, that's pretty high. So, your goal is to not get on a ventilator? It's correct. Yeah. That's like but would you call that the last resort?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Yeah, like if we have to do it. You know, these people are declining really quick. They go down. And so if you have any question, you have to put a two Bynum breathing tube in today's question about that, too, when you're on a ventilator, and I've heard mixed stories, where do they have to sometimes have restraints on their hands and that sort of thing, or they're having a ventilator in place is, is that true? Or is that just an abnormal story that we've heard in the news? No, that's true. We try not to use it because you're chemically sedated. And so, we want to make sure you're adequately sedated via the medications. And so, we don't want to put restraints on someone if we don't have to. But sometimes people don't respond to a typical amount of sedation. And we have to put restraints because even when you're out, your body will just kind of move on its own and you don't want it to grab ahold of the tune. Without you don't want it to grab hold of Ivy's, insane Do you want to have the person cause trauma to themselves when they don't know what's going on or pull out catheters and things like that? So, you have to a lot of times you do have to restrain them just with their wrists. We tried to just do the wrists only.
Lisa Beres
And can people visit the patients now like in the hospital that you work at Hoag hospital? Can they have visitors or is that still?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Well, we do have visitors, we do have restrictions in place, but there are instances where we make exceptions. So, instance that we have is if someone's undergoing surgery, they can have one family member with them on the day of surgery. If there's someone who are not have the mental capacity to make decisions for themselves, children are another reason or an hour allowing people who are dying to have a family member come in. Oh, that's good. I, you know, yeah. But for the most part, he needs that. For the most part, we're returning people, a lot of people away or meeting them downstairs. If they need to bring something in for that patient will have a runner, go downstairs to the front desk, pick it up from the family member and take it to the patient. Oh, my goodness. the world we live in. Yeah, I know. It's really extreme case. So, someone is on a ventilator, but like what percentage of those who want a ventilator even get off the ventilator? And how can you tell if they're strong enough if they're actually sedated and restrained, that there's progress made, that they can be off the ventilator?
Yeah, to evaluate someone coming off of a ventilator takes an intensive care physician will be calling intensivist. They are managing my hospital; they manage these patients. And so, there's a whole what we call a weaning protocol. Where we try you know, once we think we've got a handle on someone's condition that caused him to be intubated in the first place if their labs are looking better their blood gases, which look at the amount of oxygen, carbon dioxide and the acid base balance, if those are all looking good, we feel like someone's improving, we slowly turn down the amount of support that the machine provides. So, let's say you know, as we're, you know, room air oxygen saturations about what 20 21%. So, on a ventilator, we can give someone 100% oxygen, so pure oxygen, but we can do any range of that. So, we, over time, we want to decrease that amount of oxygen. There are different modes in the ventilator, some that completely take over the function of the lungs altogether, and the machine just gives air and takes it out. And there are other instances where requires the person to initiate the breath, and then the Just kind of gives them a little push to help them.
Lisa Beres
What is that called, I think a CPAP machine?
Dr. Victor Sanders
No, a CPAP is completely different is the mask that goes around the face. Okay, that's called continuous positive airway pressure. The ventilator has many modes, like pressure support, ventilator support. I don't know all of them in particular, because I don't, I don't need to manage those. And that's done with the intensivist and the respiratory therapists. But there are ways to allow the patient to test to see if the patient can take a deep breath on their own, how much tidal volume or the amount of oxygen they inhale in one breath, they can bring in on their own. So, you do that gradually over time. And on these weaning trials, if they keep failing these, they have to stay on the ventilator. And over time, if they don't come off the ventilator, you're putting a trach tracheostomy. So that way, you can then get this person get that out of their mouth. Start getting that you know Halo because that's more of the long-term thing is through When someone's recovering for months and months, you need the support of a ventilator.
Lisa Beres
And that's major surgery right to get?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Um, it's definitely a surgical procedure. It's not that invasive, we can typically do it at the bedside in the ICU, just like a cardiothoracic surgeon that does, it makes a small incision. And it's a pretty straightforward and pretty quick procedure. Okay, but the effects on it, do I do that? Yeah.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
It's still invasive.
Lisa Beres
And the ventilator, I guess, it's just a tube that goes down your throat, can they talk when they're on the ventilator?
Dr. Victor Sanders
No, you're completely in a�
Lisa Beres
Ron, we would not do well.
Dr. Victor Sanders
That's why advanced directives and you know, code status and designating someone as a decision-maker are so crucial because if you have no one to make decisions on your behalf, it falls to the next person in your family. So, like the A lot of people don't have these discussions with their significant others or partners or family to say, here's what I would want to be done for me if I'm on a ventilator for a month. And so, it's you need to have these tests. He's advanced directives, and discussions with families like, here's what I would want you to do for me and designate someone who's making decisions. Because once you're on a ventilator, you're not going to remember it.
Lisa Beres
But this is an important point to make that not just because of covid. But in general, it's important to discuss these and have these kinds of conversations with your family, because you never know, if you're going to get into an accident or anything like that. And it's, you know, we had a tragic event in our family and something happened with my brother in law and wife and he was telling us that they didn't have an advanced directive, and it ended up causing some issues with not being able to access some of her medical records that had to be on file. And he had said to us, you guys, make sure you have one. And it's interesting because these are conversations that you know, you're not having with your family and you're not being taught this in school or you know, so I think the taboo of is something going to happen, are you going to get sick like we have to kind of just have those conversations and make sure that we have things in place now an advanced directive. Do you get that through a notary? Or could you actually if you just wrote something and signed it? Would that be legitimate enough? Or does it have to be through a hospital protocol?
Dr. Victor Sanders
In the hospital setting, we can take a verbal, you know, if you come in and you're having a hard time breathing, you're really sick, like, I want her, she'll be my wife, she'll be making my decision. That's all as your physician, that's all I need, you know, because there's no one Advanced Directive in place. Then you go to the person who knows you the best and typically, that's your partner. That's a family member. And someone has to step up. And so, there are you can download forms off the internet for like a durable power of attorney. For advanced directives, they do need a notary, those forms because they're much more in-depth of like, when you die, what do you want to be done? Very detailed, and hospital emergency setting. You just tell me who to talk to and I will touch base, I will make sure that person is informed and get and get decisions made from that
Dr. Justyna Sanders
first preparedness. Just do it again. ahead of time. Yeah,
Lisa Beres
absolutely. Yes, you're under a lot of stress at that point, no matter what, you know, that's the last thing you need is more stress.
Dr. Victor Sanders
There's the last thing you want to do is like, if you haven't had the discussion and someone's super sick and you're contemplating end of life care, is to feel like you made that decision to remove your loved one from care versus they made the call and paperwork months ago, and you're simply executing their wish.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And, then the trauma that you have to or some people do, and you're from making such a decision for the rest of their lives. I mean, that's just that's too much for somebody.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, I'm always shocked in life, how much we know about reality TV and sports and so little about some of these important things, you know, our health.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
most definitely, it comes down to education, right? And these kinds of conversations to really get you the information that you need and maybe stir curiosity for you to go do your own research, but to really make those decisions that are those pivotal decisions in your life. That could save your life. That's where you should be educated. You know, we need to talk about that. It's a whole process dying is a whole process in itself. And it's not shouldn't be about fear-mongering, mongering, but rather empowerment that, hey, you know, like, we all know that this is a transient time, we're not going to be here forever. And let's just, you know, squeeze all the lemon juice out of the lemon, you know, like you make the most out of it and do it in an educated well-informed way. That's Well said. Well, great point. Great point. Now we're talking about some extreme cases of the ventilators. But are there any treatments at this point that could help with treating COVID-19? And for example, like what are your thoughts on Hydroxychloroquine when zinc and maybe the Z Pak combo on helping patients, either in beginning stages or later stages recover from this?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Sure. So just let your listeners know as of right now, there's no FDA approved treatment for COVID Well, we have been using as an off-label use of medications already on the market trying to see if they would have some effect on it. And so, hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, remdesivir, convalescent plasma. And then you mentioned Azithromycin, or we call it Z-Pack. I have personally been involved in the care of patients who have received all of these modalities of treatment. Currently, hydroxychloroquine has been pulled by the FDA to no longer be allowed to urge in use and that was due to too many cardiac arrhythmias. There's cardiac toxicity, if you will, with that drug. When you combine it with Azithromycin? it amplifies it. We call a prolonged qTC. Basically, you get a normal heart rhythm, you go into arrhythmia and your heart can stop. So, they remove that remdesivir has been as a 10-day trial for patients who are very severely sick so you can only get this if you're in a hospital setting. There has a trial that's been done, looked at 1063 patients over a 10-day course of getting this medication, and found that it decreased your recovery time. 15 to 11 days, so about 31% increased, and the recovery was deemed as someone who's able to be discharged out of the hospital or returned to their normal activities of life prior to. So that was a significant improvement. It has fewer negative effects to the hydroxychloroquine. So right now, my hospital has just finished the trial end of May, for doing a lot of patients with that. And so, we've been using all these things convalescent plasma, basically giving the plasma of someone who's recovered from the virus and therefore has antibodies to someone who's acutely infected with it. I haven't seen a lot of data on the efficacy of that treatment. It's still something that we're able to use. One of the more recent things that have come out of the UK is using a low dose steroid called dexamethasone, in patients, a very small subset of very sick who are needing supplemental oxygen. So, you need oxygen through either another device like nasal cannula c pap or on a ventilator and severely sick that trial data is being done. Now, on to the National Health Service and Oxford University. They're looking at 2100 patients versus 4300 patients who get usual care. So that is the study. So, they're showing some promising results. And so, we can use it on an emergency use basis only in the hospital. But it's not something I recommend anyone going to their doctor right now and getting, because we don't want to use up the supply that we might need for people in the hospital. Excellent. Well, there certainly has been a lot of pressure on hydrochloric when, but more specifically, combined with zinc. And I thought, but some of the studies that were out there didn't have that combination with zinc. And it also is z Pak combo. Is that true? Or were there studies specifically on those combinations of drugs together?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
What I've been finding is actually with zinc in particular, yes, I have not seen many studies where zinc is used in conjunction with hydroxychloroquine. Which is interesting because 25% approximately at least it's out Estimated so that of the US population is zinc deficient. So, if you're using hydroxy core Quinn, the whole mechanism of action is to allow zinc to enter the cell much easier. So intracellularly and zinc acts in a way to actually go in into the replicates, which is this thing we call the RNA dependent RNA polymerase. This is the replication stage of the virus, a coronavirus, or other types of viruses, respiratory viruses we've seen in MERS and SARS. And what it does is it basically targets that and attacks that and that's what zinc does. But if we have so many people who are deficient, either not absorbing it or not getting it through their diet, most likely. Mmm. Right, like you're back to that the whole lifestyle thing. You know, then if you're giving them hydroxychloroquine theoretically, it would make sense that that drug wouldn't be as effective because you need the zinc in order to go in and do its part.
Dr. Victor Sanders
Right, we have us think in the hospital with hydroxychloroquine. So, he has his patients, but we don't know and I haven't really seen in the research than using those both in conjunction in all the different studies with hydroxychloroquine. I personally haven't I want to say with the trials in the hospital, you did not need zinc was not part of the study trial, I think they were just trying to see if the drug on its own would work in a combo or without a combination of azithromycin or the Z Pak. But the cardiotoxic effects and arrhythmias were too great to continue. So, it's been pulled from emergency use by the FDA.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Well, it's really interesting on the topic of zinc is these things that we call zinc ion force. And these are channels that are formed on top of a cell membrane. And zinc ionophores if you give something to somebody where it can create this type of channel for zinc to be better, to be better optimized. So, to be able to enter into the cell and do its thing and then the replication stage, that would be really beneficial. And so, they're finding with remdesivir as a zinc ionophore this has that sort of effect. But again, I'll bring it back. If someone is deficient in zinc or they're not getting enough zinc in their diets, you do not store zinc in your body. So sure, it's found in skeletal muscle and whatnot. But once you use it up on a daily basis, you need to replenish it the very next day. So, it's not like vitamin B 12, for instance, that you store in the liver for up to three to five years. Once you have enough stores, you're good for three to five years just in case but we in the whole food plant-based movement, always recommend b 12. Anyway, but what zinc is one of those things that you don't store and so every single day, you need a dose of zinc from your diet.
Lisa Beres
We're gonna get into foods but tell us really quick what some foods high in zinc that we could do.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Just every day you guys see a lot of people don't know this but like pumpkin seeds and hemp seeds and all different types of seeds, they actually have more per percentile of zinc than beef does. So, for instance, 100 grams, he has 44% of your daily value of zinc whereas just 30 grams of seeds any kind of seeds has approximately 40% so if you multiply 90 grams of seeds has over 100% of your daily intake.
Lisa Beres
Wow, that's great. Oh, yeah. We got we have all vegans on the call today.
Ron Beres
The producer too, by the way, producer.
Lisa Beres
So that's really okay. So great. You know, it's funny, I don't do enough seeds. So now I am. I've got my warning. Could you supplement still if you can't get it in your diet every day?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
You can most definitely supplement two things. I have a problem with supplements number one, the adulteration. And you don't know what you're getting, it has to be a reputable source. I always, you know, ask and encourage people to look at the certificates of analyses of the products that nobody does that.
Lisa Beres
Do they give you the look? Like, what are you talking about?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah. What do you want to know what is in the supplements that you're taking? Unfortunately, because they are not FDA regulated the supplement industry, you can pretty much find anything in supplements and people will buy it. So Oh, gotcha. The tricky thing. And another thing with supplements is that zinc binds copper. So, having too much zinc in your diet, especially from a supplement, which is usually high potency, high dose, you have a risk of binding copper therefore you won't be absorbing copper and copper is important for other biochemical reactions. So it's about that you know, the balance and that's always the best way I always say the best way to know your levels if anything you know is to go to the doctor and get a comprehensive I'm testing of all the vitamins, minerals and cofactors and enzymes and everything you have, but no one does that either.
Lisa Beres
I was going to say that we go to a functional integrative center and integrative MD, and they are very aggressive with the testing, although your insurance company doesn't cover like a lot of that. So, your bill, you're always a little shocked. When you see the bill, you�re like, what happened to my insurance? Oh, yeah, they paid for $20 of it. Some are better than others. But so you do have to, that's a really great point, you do have to kind of speak up, be your own proponent of your health and say, hey, I want you to test more than just the basic that's going to be covered. Yeah, I know a lot of people you know, are budgeting and worried about that. But it is an investment in your health. It is an investment to get those full panels done right.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Absolutely. Every year. And I always say challenge your doctor. You know, a lot of them haven't had the education that you might have had or the exposure that you might have had with nutrition and all the things are starting to come out about Yeah, you can reverse chronic diseases it's you know, you don't have to be on medications for the rest of your life. And many of these doctors who may be a don't stay on top of the research or be just haven't had the exposure just haven't had that, you know, that kind of education. You don't challenge them, bring these up with them. And they might think you're a hypochondriac at one point, but who cares, you're your own, you know, the CEO of your health, the greatest health advocate, advocate for yourself. So, you got one life and you gotta, you know, you got to live it.
Lisa Beres
So right and not just live it but live it well, right. I mean, I know we all on the call here agree with that. It's not just about kind of surviving through this. It's about thriving, you know, that's been my big turning point is, you know, I was really sick when I got sick from my toxins and a new home. And, you know, you can fall into this slippery slope of, well, I'm just getting by, you know, and I'm doing this I'm just getting by and, you know, no, that's not a life like you need to thrive and you need to feel good and you need to have energy.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, it's not about a lifespan. It's about a healthspan.
Lisa Beres
I love that. It's not about a lifespan, its about a healthspan. I love it. tagline. Okay, so what can people do? And I know everybody listening is saying, hey, Well, okay, this is all great. But what can I do right now to prevent COVID-19? And assuming they should take the Ron earthquake strap, proactive measures?
Dr. Victor Sanders
That would be Ron�s approach � it would be a hazmat suit. Yeah, we're all safe. We're all safe. Exactly. I think what we're hearing out there and what people are basically not adhering to, we need to adhere to it. The obvious hygiene being the biggest thing, as well as the masking, not touching your face, don't touch your eyes, washing your hands, common surfaces, what do you know, what are you touching other people have touched, and the social distancing. We know how this thing is transmitted. We can do simple measures to prevent that.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, one thing I want to bring up is a lot of people don't know that. But one of the number one preventive measures for us for basically preventing infectious diseases in all of history we've seen is none other than. So, it's hygiene, public health measures. So, it's not the advancements in technology that have actually created longer lifespans. You know, I'm not talking about healthspan. But lifespans. It's actually hygiene, sanitation. These are the measures that we've seen in history that have actually helped allow humans to live much longer. So, I can't tell you how many times and I don't know if you guys have seen this, but realize six, seven years I've been saying, I have not seen one person in public wash their hands properly. Where're the 23 seconds? Where's the soap? I see. Five seconds. I see no soap I see. Just fingertips eyes, you know, and I it's no wonder and I'm all about it. You know, having a healthy microbiome and exposing yourself to dirt and getting in the garden instead of talking about like fecal matter transmitting, you know, diseases,
Dr. Victor Sanders
Or somebody else's microbiome?
Lisa Beres
Yeah, no, I don't want a fecal implant. I've heard about those No.
Dr. Victor Sanders
Fecal transplant. Yeah, Ron would be your donor.
Unknown Speaker
Oh, no, no. I know they help, but no.
Dr. Victor Sander
You�d clean, clean. That's for sure.
Lisa Beres
You're right. Dr. Justyna. That's such a good point. We did a show on homemade hand sanitizers and what's in sanitizers and we have articles on our website, that you know, everyone's just going hand sanitizer crazy. And like you said, just the soap with a good 2-second wash, scrubbing in between.
Ron Beres
Lisa, she said 23 seconds. So okay, okay.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
23 is okay. Great. Get that 20 seconds.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. Happy birthday, the ABCs sing, you know. And then also, I think a lot of people don't realize that a lot of the hand sanitizers on the market, yes, they have that 70% alcohol, but they also have a lot of additives like synthetic fragrances that can have endocrine-disrupting chemicals in there and they can have thickeners and a lot of other things that can be toxic. They're also extremely drying. Right?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, when you get your cracked skin, you're more susceptible to catching all kinds of things. Right? Yeah, you bring up a very good point about the adulteration and methanol, we're seeing studies of people having methanol and so many of these newer products. I mean, that's toxic. What are you doing you know, and that's not what we're talking about here?
Lisa Beres
We're talking about health so yeah, we talked to a chemist who said hey, if you're in the worst-case scenario, just use alcohol you know, rubbing alcohol of 70% just plain right and I bought we bought a hand sanitizer at the store and you know, everything was gone from the shelves, so we just took whatever we could get in this hand. This hand sanitizer is kind of we put it in the car as a backup at the guard gasps Whatever. It smells so disgusting. It smells like tequila. And it's called Bahama breeze or something.
Lisa Beres
It like nauseates me I don't use, but Ron uses it sometimes I'm like, I'm suddenly craving a margarita. Oh, it's so gross. That company was happy to still be in business, I guess.
Dr. Victor Sanders
People were buying up Everclear when that was wiped, you're going to liquor stores and buying Everclear bottles. So, I think they're 160 proof for say, making their own from Everclear.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Which brings us to the point of how bad is our healthcare system and how ill-equipped are we? Yeah, yeah. kinds of situations. I mean, shouldn't you have been prepared?
Lisa Beres
Yeah, why didn't we learn these things from the beginning? Right, you know? So this shows how important because I really I know we're going to get into, you know, more of the immune system and that kind of stuff and what we can do just in our everyday life and really being proactive and taking responsibility, right taking responsibility for your health and you know, Ron dive into teaching people about getting toxins out of their home in life, so that you don't your body burden load isn't so high. And you know, people tend to pay attention when they need to when it's an emergency versus doing these things ahead of time.
Ron Beres
That's a great point. I really want to ask you, doctors, exactly how does the immune system work? And before I asked you that I did have a quick thought I was thinking, Okay, we're all for social distancing and staying away from people. But let's say you're on a hike by yourself, would you recommend wearing your mask Because ultimately, from what I understand, and what I've been reading, is when you're breathing out carbon dioxide, you're breathing it back in. And so that's not so good for your body? I would, I would think, right. You're not affecting anyone else but yourself. What would you suggest in those scenarios, I've seen a lot of people hiking and running and exerting a lot of energy and breathe in carbon dioxide from the mask?
Dr. Victor Sanders
They're wearing you could probably hypothesize that their carbon dioxide level might go up a little bit in the bloodstream. But these masks are designed so that the holes in them allow oxygen still to come through. So, and allows molecules to still exchange. It's all based on the particle size of what they're allowing. So, I wear a mask. As soon as I stepped foot out of my car onto hospital property, I'm in a mask. I only take it off when I eat. Or I'm sitting somewhere where I can shut the door and be by myself and like a small dictation room or something. So, I'm wearing it all day. I haven't had felt lightheaded. I haven't felt dizzy. I haven't seen anyone passing out being hypoxic or having a low oxygen level. I haven't seen any of that. And, you know, we're busy all day long in the hospital physicians, nursing staff, cleaning crew, everyone, visitors, everyone's wearing a mask and you're not seeing it. You're not hearing about it. I don't think it's something to be concerned about. Now, if you're running or doing like a CrossFit workout, with a mask on I don't know how That's going to be I just don't, I just don't know, I would say you're going to, it's going to be harder to breathe. And so, it might be like exercising at an elevated climb or elevate elevation to kind of give yourself that edge in endurance sports, but I don't know what it's going to do to you.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
In terms of studies or anything like that, we haven't seen anything in particular, but common sense a clear. If you're in the middle of the forest, by yourself, take your mask off.
Lisa Beres
And because we see a lot of people driving in their cars by themselves with their mask on, maybe it's because they don't want to keep taking it on and off. But yeah, no, at that point, I'm like, I think it'd be better to get some fresh oxygen.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, that's the only concern is, you know, the concern of reinfecting yourself. So, let's say you have viral particles on your mask. And let's say you're touching it with your hands, taking the mask off. Maybe now it's on your hands, maybe when you put it back on. Maybe you can Get the viral particles. Now inside the mess. There's just that concern. Again, the research, I don't know, I've not seen studies to show and definitively prove that. But that has been concerns that have been brought up by the World Health Organization, or at least I've seen that. Yeah, there were a couple of things.
Ron Beres
So, one of the reasons why I asked you there are some videos that were popular where someone was actually taking a reading a while wearing the mask and air reading on carbon dioxide. And the levels were considered pretty toxic, right? I don't know the exact level was or what those examples were. But that was one example. And then the other one was if someone had COVID already, and they had it in their system, they were discovered by them wearing a mask. They're actually breathing in and then COVID was going to their brain. Is that true?
Lisa Beres
New York, and it was some New York hospitals. I think.
Ron Beres
it was I so since we have both doctors here, I wanted I just wanted to know you might not be familiar with that?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Yeah. How are you mentioning about like constantly staying infected because you're Just re breathing viral particles? And that meaning like a prolonged infectious period, or what I don't, I don't know.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
But let's just say, Ron, if someone is positive COVID, we would kindly ask them to stay at home. Thank you.
Ron Beres
That's true. Right. And so, I was just I was curious about data, you know, just wanted to get your opinion on that. But getting back to the immune system, which we all agree, we have to make strong and basically optimize our immune system. How do we do that? And what exactly do you guys do?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
You know, we have two different types of immunity. So, there's an innate immune system as well as an acquired immune system. So, when you think of those two and innate is basically what we're born with, it's in our genetic makeup, it's our natural killer cells. It's our macrophages which there are little scavengers, it's that type of immunity, whereas our acquired immune system is a b T cell-mediated immune system with antibodies you know, you keep hearing antibodies and then in the news, herd immunity. And we'll, we'll touch on that. So, this is what we acquire or build up over time based on our exposures based on our lifestyle and things like that. So, it's important to look at both. And when it comes to COVID. And actually, when it comes to any kind of illness, infectious disease, you have to think about boosting versus optimizing the immune system. So, what do you do? Right? A lot of people are confused, should we boost it, like make it so intense? Like, you know, fight for me all the time kind of thing? Or should we just optimize it? So, we're finding with COVID-19 is that depending on your baseline, I'm going to touch on this. But depending on your baseline, it's most likely better to optimize your immune system as opposed to boost your immune system, especially if you're positive for or have signs and symptoms for COVID. At that stage, you want to have an optimized immune system.
Ron Beres
The reason why is this whole concept, optimum versus boosted I? What exactly does that mean? First, I don't know if our listeners understand that concept, at least I didn't.
Lisa Beres
I know one of our listeners does not know.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, optimizing your immune system is basically where all of your inflammatory mediators are and your immune cells, your white cells are working in cohesion, all of your biochemical reactions are in check. everything's working the way it's supposed to help you fight any pathogen that comes your way. Any foreign invader and your immune system should be able to fight that naturally. And so, whether it's an innate or an acquired immunity, it's supposed to be able to fight any kind of pathogen. However, there are situations where depending on your underlying cause, or underlying condition, medical condition, so if you have heart disease, kidney disease, if you have type two diabetes, for any instance, your immune system is much more sensitive, much more vulnerable now, because it will not work in an optimal way. So, it won't work as well as an immune system in someone who's completely healthy, who doesn't have an underlying medical condition who isn't on any medications for anything. So, when you compare those two people, one person has more of an optimized immune system that can work better for them, whereas another person, now their immune system has to work harder. So, in that vulnerable system, where maybe you have a medical condition or you're on a drug for a certain medical condition, you want to optimize your immune system. And in fact, in those people, you might want to boost it. So, optimizing is where your immune system is just working, like I said, just in a natural state, normal state, the way it's supposed to boosting. It is where you are lacking so much in immunity because you're already so inflamed, so sick, your immune system is just, you know, an over or not an overdrive, your immune system is suppressed. And so now you have to compensate for that. So, in order to do that you have to possibly rev it up, boost it up, and there's so many things that you can do nutrition-wise and lifestyle-wise that can help to aid that.
Lisa Beres
That was a great explanation. So ultimately, we want to have optimized immune systems we should and but if you're in a dire situation like these immunocompromised then you need the boost. Yeah, some that's good. Okay, perfect. And then in some of these things would be I'm guessing, your vitamins, your minerals, your food, and then like, would you recommend vitamin drips, the vitamin C and D and those kinds of things?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah. So, there are so many different things and we'll bring it back to the zinc that we discussed earlier. So, zinc is an essential mineral you know in the seeds and nuts and beans, legumes, all that you can get it from your nutrition. And so, you know, this is something really important to incorporate into your lifestyle. Now what helps zinc go in or zinc ionophores? So, these channels, so we found that in the plant kingdom and a plant world these bioflavonoids called egcg, which is epi Gallo, catechin gallate.
Lisa Beres
And we don't have to repeat you say that fast. I hope there won't be a quiz at the end.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And egcg that's found in green tea, oh act as a zinc ionophore so it allows basically zinc to go back into the cell intracellularly and act in the way it's supposed to. And when it comes to COVID it's theoretical Of course, but it will make sense that having these zinc ion forums such as egcg from green tea and drinking Green tea on a daily basis will allow these ink ionophores these channels to form that will allow zinc to go into the cell and act in the way it's supposed to, to attack the replication stage of, you know, the COVID-19 infection theoretically makes sense. And we've seen that in research, at least in cell culture that it has worked in that way. Another amazing bioflavonoid aside from egcg is course it in and course it in in the plant kingdom can be found in onions. So, you guys get those onions.
Lisa Beres
We're onion people.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Superfoods such as watercress, you can find that in certain stores, great, great source of chlorophyll to a lot of people, you know, right. And in cilantro, so these are just like, that some people might find at any grocery store type of thing.
Lisa Beres
But yeah, a lot of the foods you mentioned are prominent foods in like an Asian diet. Do countries have lower numbers. I wonder.
Dr. Victor Sanders
We don't know. Reporting correctly. Maybe we don't. Yeah,
Dr. Justyna Sanders
We don't know. But that's interesting.
Lisa Beres
About the green tea. I know years ago it was all over the news about it being contaminated some types of green tea, what is the thing that we want to avoid and look for with green tea? So, metals; was contaminated with some kind of heavy metals?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, there's heavy metals and a lot of it you're right for sure. And so, I always say look at the certificate of analysis. And then if you don't, at least I say stick to lose green teas, as opposed to the bags. I personally don't like a lot of the ones with the bags because if they Leach chemicals as well, so loose green teas, you're better off that way.
Lisa Beres
Organic, you're so many bags that a lot of those new bags have plastics, right? They're like nano plastics, and they're oh my gosh, they're getting everywhere like they're permeating the oceans, but they're also small.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, you bring up a good point because it's those bioplastics that people think oh, well, you know, these will disintegrate once you know, throw it in the trash? Will they disintegrate into these micro little particles? Yeah, but you can't see, but it's still doing and wreaking havoc in the same way that you know, in your body.
Lisa Beres
Yes. And in your body. I mean, if it's disintegrating, it's going to be disintegrating in a hot cup of liquid, I would think.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And then it's affecting our soil, and then the soil is affecting our plants, and then it goes on and on with our microbiome.
Lisa Beres
Okay, so bring bringing back to antibodies. We just touched on that a little bit. So, if you contract COVID-19, does that mean that you have immunity to future exposures, and therefore you won't contract it again? And is there such thing as herd immunity, we've heard about this. I'd love your explanation because all I know about it is you get it from vaccines. You can also get it naturally I thought if enough people get it. So, I'd love to hear your breakdown on that.
Dr. Victor Sanders
So, we can talk about like, we thought about antibodies first and then we get into the herd immunity. Okay, antibodies are now like a big Hot Topic when it comes to COVID. Because now it's gonna, you know, right now my hospital is also part of a trial of testing healthcare workers if they have antibodies or not. So, I've been tested, I don't have them. I'm going to have another blood drawn a couple more weeks just to see, the question becomes not so much. It's a multiple part kind of approach. You have to take it as one does you have antibodies? And two? Are they going to offer you any protective benefits so just because you have antibodies does not make you immune to the virus? So, let's if we're going to stick with COVID, and we've seen that just because you might get the virus to you might not make antibodies even in and that's an instance a study came out about Sweden. We all know Sweden has sparked a lot of controversy by approaching the pandemic with herd immunity. Only 6% of the population has antibodies so When it comes to herd immunity, you need a large proportion, we're talking 70% of your population to have antibodies of six. So, it takes a while to get there. But before we digress into the herd immunity antibodies, you know, hospitalized patients are more likely to have neutralizing antibodies. So, by neutralizing, I mean that ones that can actually stop viral replication. So a recent study just came out, I believe, the past week or so from the journal Nature, looked at 111 patients out of New York and Rockefeller hospitals, New York was the hotspot when it came to the US looked at 111 patients who are positive and then looked at 46, asymptomatic household contacts of those people and looking at who's got the antibodies. What does it mean? Who's immune who's not, and they found that 20 to 30% didn't make antibodies at a significant level above the asymptomatic contacts, which are the controls Third, didn't have antibodies beyond what someone just living in the house who never had symptoms also had. They looked at, and they saw that 79% of the patients only had partial immunity. That's only 111 people. So, it's not a lot. The studies not very powerful. But it's just it's our first glimpse into what the antibodies, what benefit do they offer and what is their meaning. And so, there's a point of the benchmark of looking at antibodies is a thing we call in t 50, which is neutralizing titer 50, the number of antibodies needed to decrease the replication of the virus by 50%. So, only 80% of people had partial immunity. So, they had a little bit of it, but not above it. You want to get to like a titer of like, thousands. Not very many people have single digits. Wow. So partial immunity. So, what exactly does that mean? Like you have some of the antibodies but not enough to ever stop it from affecting us that we mean you might contract the virus again. For the second time, Oh, I see, Oh, you got really sick, then you could theorize that the second time around you might not get as sick.
Lisa Beres
So, it might be beneficial. Yeah. Are you pro a vaccine for this then? And if so, mass vaccination or more just, you know, the immune-compromised or thought on that?
Dr. Victor Sanders
I mean, it's a very complicated answer to be. in this situation where we're creating a vaccine, we're fast-tracking it. We're not going to have years to look at it and do multiple clinical trials to look at larger and larger patient populations to see what the long-term effects are on this. We're going to produce it and someone is going to decide subjectively, that this has some benefit, and then boom, they're going to mass-produce it and then people I think, will rather take it take their chances than taking them getting current with the code. And possibly die. We don't know the long-term effects. So, we're treading on dangerous waters here, I think by going after a mass vaccination of everybody, yeah, versus letting your body and your immune system be exposed to it. And when what's going to happen? That's a big unknown for people too. So, I think both are pretty big unknowns. And it's going to be difficult to say, is there one that offers more advantages and more benefits than the other? And what is the ultimate? You know, what is the ultimate end goal here because if we're going towards a here a herd immunity, which Several studies have thought that we need to get to 70, if not 80% immunity, meaning damage of the population, so we're looking at 200 plus million people in our country need to have antibodies either by way of vaccination, or by getting the virus but then as we just mentioned, just because you get the virus doesn't mean you have the mental appropriate level of immunity. The people who die don't contribute to her immunity. Think about that, too. That's counted in the numbers of people who are tested positive. But if they're dead, they can't protect the rest of people, right? Because Yeah, or immunity is you try to get the majority of the population immune to a disease so that you stop the spread, you stop the transmission, but you need to get 70% of people either mass vaccinated, who knows how long that will take in the next year before we have a viable vaccine, with no long term data to go off of, or you let 70% of the population gets sick, and you're having a mortality rate that is higher than influenza? It's not lower, it is higher.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
I mean, it's going to be a difficult decision to like, what do you do if you do have a vaccine? You know, finally available? Will you be first in line? Or do you wait it out and see what the effects are over time? I think you know that another point that needs to be brought up and really discussed and we should be having this conversation in the medical community and on the news right now, is what people can be doing right now to again, strengthen the immune system, change our lifestyle, reverse chronic diseases, we need to be more aware of what we're doing on a daily basis, the cumulative actions that we basically have every single day on our body the effect that every single action that you have in your lifestyle has on our human body. That's what we should be considering how your diet is, how you're sleeping, are you exercising? Who do you surround yourself with? What kind of toxic chemicals are lurking in every single thing that you expose yourself to on a daily basis, whether it's mold or plastic, or something like that? These are the conversations we should be having now. And these are what I hoped in a month, two months from now are what we'll only be talking about, where we can finally say, hey, it's time for our healthcare system to wake up. It's time People wake up take their health into their own hands. And it's time to transform.
Lisa Beres
Whoo, wow, powerful. I felt that it was an award speech. And that was great. You just don't see any news coverage on this. And it's unfortunate. And that's why, you know, when, like Ron and I and in you and both of you are going and telling people Hey, you know, it's really, really important that you clean up toxins out of your life. They like, Oh, well, that's true. It'd be all over the news. It's just not I mean, you really have to research and dig and understand and you mentioned so many things that are so important that people don't think about your sleep and even the people you surround yourself with, right, your spiritual toxicity, right, the toxicity of conversations, the toxicity of like too much negativity, too much negative news, you know, adding in meditation or prayer or whatever that is for you into your life where you can quiet your mind and, you know, heal yourself that way and of course, electromagnetic radiation which Ron and I are very big proponents against, it's just we live in such a wireless world and all of these things are kind of now having these synergistic effects where everything's getting bombarded and our body is getting less and less time to, to heal and to calm down and recuperate. I don't know if you guys saw this, but Israel announced an antibody that neutralizes Coronavirus, even among those infected. I just happened to see that I don't know too much about it, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Dr. Victor Sanders
No, I'll take a look at I haven't seen that. Yeah, I mean, there's it seems like there's something every day that comes out about an antibody. Now there was no information coming out of China for about people who have been infected that their antibody titers are dropping off after two months. The titers, basically the concentration of the antibodies in their bloodstream.
Dr. Victor Sanders
Even a few days ago, we looked at antibodies in terms of a titer amount. So, when you get tested or get a booster you need to boost up your antibody titers right? So, we have no idea what an antibody-positive antibody test means and someone given immunity is at partial immunity. How long does it last? And versus you know, getting the infection versus a vaccine? same questions are the vaccine gave immunity. How long is it going to last?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
What are the negative effects?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Those things? Six months, the rest of your life?
Lisa Beres
Yeah, I love what you said. I think I mean; I know for me; I would not be first in line. But then again, I'm super, super proactive with my health. I think you know, if you were you had an immunocompromised system. That's a different story. You know, you're now weighing out the pros and cons. But it does seem to me that if you are healthy, and you don't have those risk factors that you mentioned at the beginning of the show, you know, it's risky. It's risky to go in and put yourself into a position where these untested vaccines haven't gone through animal trials and things.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, the only concern that we're seeing with COVID-19 specifically, is this cytokine storm Where the immune system goes into a hyper-inflammatory type of state and reaction. And this is very unique to this kind of respiratory infection because in the typical Coronavirus or Rhinovirus, or some kind of these are the types of viruses that we see in the common cold. We don't see something like a cytokine storm reaction where the immune system is like, too robust, too strong. This is why I talked about the optimizing versus the robust so when someone who's healthy, you might not want to just overdo something like for instance, vitamin d3 supplementation and elderberry have been found that if you are already positive for COVID, those two things you might want to be wary of taking during the time of you having COVID or having the manifestations of COVID-19 because it could drive the immune system into hyper overdrive where you're releasing these chemicals. cytokines, chemo kings Your body's now destroying not just you're not just the infectious tissue, but also the healthy tissue. And then the integrity of that. And that we've seen and you've seen in the hospital, people really quickly decline if they do enter that type of state.
Ron Beres
Wow, a high level of vitamin D. I mean, if people take a supplement typically or what would be something like Hey, don't do this because they may be asymptomatic and not note that have COVID but they're taking a lot of vitamin D, what would be that?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, if you're asymptomatic, you don't really have to worry, right? You can keep taking vitamin d3 because if you're asymptomatic and you don't have symptoms then but once you start seeing signs and symptoms, I will okay I personally from the research that I've been seeing on vitamin d3 during the time where you have signs and symptoms of COVID I would say just stop it for that time being.
Lisa Beres
You know, I don't know if I'm going to say that right, cytokine storm is that I read something we have a colleague who created the Barefoot earthing pad. I don't know if you're familiar with that. It's that. Yeah. earthing grounding going back to that grounding. And he was saying that that is really good at countering that just the grounding and getting your feet on the earth. And if you can't do that walking barefoot, obviously if you can't do that, then there's the pads and the grounding pads. Figured I'd throw that out there. Okay, so we got to wrap up and I would love to have you guys back. This has been so incredible. And so, eye-opening you guys are such a wealth of knowledge and you're such a little power couple.
Lisa Beres
We've dined together twice over very wonderful, vibrant, colorful, plant-based organic vegan food.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
I can't wait. We can actually connect again and human, human touch, you know?
Lisa Beres
And you know, that'd be great.
Ron Beres
So, thanks for what you guys do. This is incredible. And you guys are the real deal too because we're vegan, but we didn't realize there were different levels of vegan your hardcore vegan. It was like you're avoiding oils and things like that.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, make you and me look like rebels, Ron.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Well, you're probably rebels in the household with all of your toxic-free everything.
Lisa Beres
We challenge each other. I love that. And I love meeting people who do make you better and who inspire you right to do your best. So, you know, the silver lining here, I think is that people are, you know, paying more attention, hopefully. And hopefully, after this podcast, you've gotten some great tips from the doctors, Sanders, both of them and that you implement a more plant-based movement. I know we're not going to have time to get into all of what that looks like, but maybe on another show, we could get into just the food and diet. And then what do you guys think the future looks like within terms of living with COVID? What will we get back to a new normal? Will we get to take those masks off and like, get back to somewhat of a normal or do you think this is going to last for quite some time?
Dr. Victor Sanders
I think this will last for quite some time. And that could be that we're, it's a topic in the news, it's on everyone's discussion. Every day numbers would be coming out; I think that's going to be for a while. I think what's happened is when we started to bend the curve, and we went into lockdown, we obviously the balance of coming out with the economic toll it was taking, you know, you had to find some time to be like, we got to just take a chance, I think the biggest thing was to let healthcare get ready to absorb the hit. So, I think now with we still have a lot of the population who went into lockdown her still worried coming out, there's still going to be at risk of catching it because of everyone else. And so, I think we're still going to have cases, at least for the remainder of the year for sure. Where we're still going to be having the practice of social distancing the masks and being mindful of where we go and who we are around, and what's you know, who we associate with, and where do we go, we're gonna have to be mindful that I think it's Something that we're going to have to Be mindful for, I think forever. So, this is a virus that it's so new, we don't know what's going to do. If it's just a onetime thing and done, or it's going to come around every year, like influenza, and just be a different variety of HSN. We have no idea. Yeah, so it could be around. We've already seen it mutating. Who knows if those are going to be even stronger than the current strain of the more prominent strain that first came out? We have no idea. So, I think we need to get used to what we're doing. Make this the mask, you know, this distancing the hygiene, number one, the hygiene.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Just soap you guys, soap.
Lisa Beres
This show can be summed up in one word, soap.
Dr. Victor Sanders
And you know, you're going to have a whole different a whole new economy in that we're bringing manufacturing jobs back to this us because we see that we saw that we relied on China, not only drugs or for PPP. So, if we can do it ourselves, we can create those jobs, a lot of jobs are forever lost.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And I think it also creates this sort of new lens to look at the world and has brought in a different perspective of you know zoonotic diseases, and how we as humans are our relationship with Planet Earth and Mother Nature and how we're impacting that. How we can basically in the future, if we continue our practices, we already know there's going to be devastating, even more, devastating consequences. You think that this is bad, it's going to get even worse, worse, you're seeing fires, we're seeing so many things, so much devastation, diseases, is just going to keep happening. So, I think this is a wakeup call for all of us as humans to take action not only on an individual level but action on collectively in terms of humanity. And finally, take a stance and say no more, we're going to start changing things around, you know, implementing more plans and doing things that we know are better for us, the health of us and the health of humanity in general and the health of Mother Earth and everything and everything in it.
Lisa Beres
My gosh, so beautiful. That was beautifully said. Amen to that. I cannot agree more I. Again, this was so fantastic and people can learn more about you at prescription lifestyle calm. Well, thank you guys so much. I hope you enjoyed the show as much as we did. We appreciate you joining us today. You can learn more about us at Ron and lisa.com and be sure to tune in next week to find out what the heck is going on in your home.
Narrator
This episode of the healthy home hacks podcast has ended. But be sure to subscribe for more healthy living strategies and tactics to help you create the healthy home you've always dreamed up. And don't forget to rate and review so we can continue to bring you the best content. See you on the next episode.
Sign up to receive email updates
Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast.
Lisa Beres
This episode of healthy home hacks is sponsored by the building biology Institute to learn more about creating indoor environments that support health and wellness visit their free resources at building biology institute.org
Narrator
How would you like to improve your health and keep your family safe? You're listening to the healthy home hacks podcast where we firmly believe enjoying optimal health shouldn't be a luxury. healthy home authorities and husband and wife team Ron and Lisa will help you create a home environment that will level up your health. It's time to hear from the experts listen in on honest conversations and gain the best tips and advice. If you're ready to dive in and improve your well-being and increase your energy you're in the right place. All right, here are your hosts, biologists, authors, media darlings, vicarious vegans and avocado aficionados. Ron and Lisa Beres.
Lisa Beres
We can't talk to two educate physicians today without bringing up the pink elephant in the room the current coronavirus pandemic. You can't go anywhere today without having a conversation about the spread, the restrictions, the lockdowns, the mandated masks, and the fear surrounding this unprecedented time in our world today. But rather than a waiter, your mother or your BFF, giving you faulty information, our guests today are going to clear the COVID-19 clutter Dr. Justino Sanders is a California based medical doctor and medical lifestyle transformation specialist. Dr. Justyna is the CEO and founder of prescription lifestyle calm, whose objective is to promote health, wellness and prevention by using whole plant-based nutrition as medicine and unifying evidence-based disciplines of medicine into one system. She encourages the use of personalized medicine with a focus on whole-body health and the underlying causes of disease and she fears lifestyle as medicine. Dr. Victor Sanders is a licensed California based physician whose board-certified in internal medicine and specializes in hospital medicine. Dr. Victor attended St. George's University School of Medicine and completed his residency in internal medicine at the University of Arizona. He is currently working at hold Hospital in Newport Beach, California. Dr. Victor has worked closely with hospital-based dieticians to revamp their patient menu and provide healthy vegan options OMG I'm like love that. As the lead physician for the inpatient diabetes management team. He's collaborated with diabetic nurse educators to improve the treatment of diabetes in hospitalized patients. Dr. Victor educates his patients and the public on the benefits of a whole food plant-based lifestyle. Welcome both of you to the show.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Thanks for having me so, so much. Let's dive into it. So what risk factors are associated with contracting COVID-19 and are worsening the symptoms or outcomes of that. So, there's various different risk factors and everything that we're going to talk about today is evidence-based. And everything that we talked about, basically, on our platforms with patients with my clients and other people is all evidence-based, and it's found in the medical literature. So, what we're finding is that cardiovascular diseases, as well as people who have kidney diseases, chronic respiratory diseases, such as COPD or asthma, these are major risk factors as well as obesity and hypertension. So, we're finding that anyone with this, whether it's comorbidities a mix of all of these, some of these or even one of these, puts them at greater risk for contracting COVID-19 and also puts them at greater risk for having more severe
Dr. Victor Sanders
We're manifestations of the illness and infection itself. And the long-term consequences of that. Go ahead, doctor. But other risk factors, obviously, we've heard a lot about people's age. So advanced age and that comes with the older you are people in society tend to have more of these chronic medical conditions that she just mentioned, as well as diabetes, type two diabetes, you know, hypertension, heart disease, these all kind of come in one package. So, your risks, if you have one of these, your risk of getting the others are greater as well. And what we've seen is that these risk factors increase your chance of death by a factor of 12. Hmm, a factor of 12. Wow, massive. And just by having one of these, as opposed to multiple ones gives you a risk factor increased by six. And this is coming out of the CDC Morbidity and mortality weekly report, as of about last week. So, this is some of the most current data that we're finding.
Ron Beres
I did read in a Forbes article just recently that the majority of deaths are coming from a very small population about 6% of the population, specifically maybe around nursing homes in those areas. And that kind of is in alignment, what you're talking about with age. Did you read that by chance as well, I want to comment on that?
Dr. Victor Sanders
I did not read that. But I can give you some information about like Orange County, where we have, you know, half of the nursing homes out here are now reporting outbreaks. That's about it about 70 in Orange County. So that's up from about 21 to two weeks ago. So, we're seeing the spike out here. And obviously, we're seeing a greater amount of mortality coming from patients who are in these facilities because they're obviously older and have much more chronic medical conditions as well. So, we are still seeing the deaths in that subset of population who are older. And Dr. Justyna. Can you repeat those risk factors again, just like name the however many of these are?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
There's cardiovascular risk factors kidney disease, we have hypertension, obesity, type two diabetes. Also, if you're pregnant, you're more likely to contract it, you have a 5% greater risk of contracting it. And yeah, so various different comorbidities. Wow, that's and that's a lot of the population that you just mentioned. Yeah. Especially because a lot of people don't really realize that so many people have heart disease. In fact, children as young as 10, we've seen on autopsies have these fatty streaks in the airways so those are signs already of heart disease, a lot of people don't know that it's linked to the standard American diet. So, if we just think of it in a broad sense, it would make sense that most of us are at risk.
Lisa Beres
Right and that's an interesting the standard American diet which a lot of people also call the sad because it is a sad diet. So, would you say like those fatty arteries, whatever you got the fatty streaks Could you be thin but on a poor diet, and have that. Okay, so that's really interesting because I think a lot of people think that Oh, well you know, if they're not heavy but they're eating a lot of fast food and fried foods, right? They think oh, I'm okay. You know, I'm not overweight, I'm not going to have risks for exactly.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, most times we're seeing, of course, someone who's obese has other things metabolic problems, such as type two diabetes and other cardiovascular types of diseases, like we're talking about, but just because you're skinny does not mean you can't contract type two diabetes or any other disease such as heart disease,
Lisa Beres
Huh, skinny fat. I've heard that term skinny fat.
Ron Beres
Right? Does it mean to pregnancy that really perked my interest? As far as does the baby? Is there any research or maybe it's too early to tell? Do they get COVID as well or can the mother have COVID and not give it to the child?
Dr. Victor Sanders
So that has been a concern. I have not seen any, like hard and fast research that shows there is a risk of contraction, because if you think back into reproduction, the blood supply of the babies is not linked directly or commingled with the blood supply of the mob. though they're two separate things, because if they were together, the body would recognize the baby as like a foreign body or an invader, and would go after the fetus and attack it. So, the blood supplies are separate. So, we don't yet know if there is any crossover of the virus crossing over from the maternal to the fetal circulation. Shouldn't there be a risk? Sure, but we don't have that hard data yet. But we have seen reports that infants who are born can and have contracted COVID I just heard today; three triplets were born with cars. Yeah, and I think I don't know if the mother had it, but I thought that was so bizarre. Interesting. Yeah. Well, so everybody's worried about contracting the virus today. All of us are but are there any known residual or lasting effects after being diagnosed with COVID-19? So, I think before we answer that, it's really important to note that it seems
So far in the literature that around 80% of cases, so people who do contract it will be mild to moderate. But what that means exactly we don't know, because moderate cases we've seen can and have had really bad outcomes. Yeah, so 80% are going to fully recover from symptoms or from the infection, obviously, you're gonna have people who are asymptomatic, didn't even know it. Then you have people who are really, really sick. And so, you're looking at 20% of the people who are infected withstand the risk of having some long-term effects. So obviously, you're seeing long term residual damage to the lung. So, your ability to exchange oxygen and carbon dioxide.
I've actually had patients who have had physically lung tissue missing on CAT scans of their chest, there's holes or lung tissue. Wow. The only thing that's ever known to do that to actually destroy lung tissue that we see a lot in people's emphysema, from smoking, but they're missing tissue. So, your oxygen diffusing capacity is reduced. And so, you could have, you know, rapid decline in lung function, surviving this. And a lot of people with severe disease who get intubated on a mechanical ventilator breathing machine. They'll be on there for three to four weeks. So if you're in a bed, you're not moving, so you're wasting your muscle mass is going, Yeah, you're chemically sedated and chemically induced coma from the medications we have to give because otherwise if you were awake with a tube in your mouth, you would be fighting it the entire time. So, you have to knock them out. Coming out of that you have ICU, delirium, cognitive impairment on top of a critical illness biopsy where you're so weak, you have to relearn how to walk.
Lisa Beres
Wow, oh my gosh, so and they're not eating food, right? Are they just on IV at that point?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Well, they're on you can do a couple of different ways of nutrition when someone's critically ill not able to swallow the first off is a nasal gastric tube with small to put through the nose into the stomach. Nothing. Yeah, you're basically getting admitted to feed solution, which is basically artificial nutrition created from a pharmaceutical company, the other is TPN, or we call total parenteral. Nutrition is nutrition given through the IV into your vein, completely different formulation. Now you're not using your gut, which as we've known if you don't use it, you lose it in terms of gut, and you start having integrity of the gut wall breakdown and translocation of bacteria, increasing the risk of other superimposed infections. And your
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Immune system is vulnerable at that point because it affects your microbiome and everything else. And since we know the microbiome, which is trillions, hundred trillion bacteria that live in your gut lining, which are responsible for the integrity of your immune system. Now on top of it, you're gonna even have potentially a further decline in your health because now you're affecting that at that level.
Lisa Beres
Oh, you don't even think about the gut when you think of somebody, you know, in that sort of sedated state for that long. Like when you said if you don't use it, you lose it. I never knew that. So, it's actually healthy to eat as long as you're eating healthy.
Dr. Victor Sanders
The nasal gastric tube is like a not a long-term solution because you increase the risk of sinusitis and erosion of your esophagus and nasal mucosa. So now you have to put a surgically implanted gastrostomy to what we call a G tube, which is a tube going from the outside of your body into your stomach or your tube feeds goes, now you continue to use your gut. Oh, wow.
Lisa Beres
That's a very small percentage of people that are experiencing that. You say 20%? Because 80% will recover? Yeah, that's the good news. If for our listeners, I mean, that's actually good news here. And then what was the percentage of people that end up on a ventilator? You know, based on different studies and different outcomes and different centers that are reporting you're looking at sometimes I think, an average about 40% of seriously, people go on a ventilator. Wow, that's pretty high. So, your goal is to not get on a ventilator? It's correct. Yeah. That's like but would you call that the last resort?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Yeah, like if we have to do it. You know, these people are declining really quick. They go down. And so if you have any question, you have to put a two Bynum breathing tube in today's question about that, too, when you're on a ventilator, and I've heard mixed stories, where do they have to sometimes have restraints on their hands and that sort of thing, or they're having a ventilator in place is, is that true? Or is that just an abnormal story that we've heard in the news? No, that's true. We try not to use it because you're chemically sedated. And so, we want to make sure you're adequately sedated via the medications. And so, we don't want to put restraints on someone if we don't have to. But sometimes people don't respond to a typical amount of sedation. And we have to put restraints because even when you're out, your body will just kind of move on its own and you don't want it to grab ahold of the tune. Without you don't want it to grab hold of Ivy's, insane Do you want to have the person cause trauma to themselves when they don't know what's going on or pull out catheters and things like that? So, you have to a lot of times you do have to restrain them just with their wrists. We tried to just do the wrists only.
Lisa Beres
And can people visit the patients now like in the hospital that you work at Hoag hospital? Can they have visitors or is that still?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Well, we do have visitors, we do have restrictions in place, but there are instances where we make exceptions. So, instance that we have is if someone's undergoing surgery, they can have one family member with them on the day of surgery. If there's someone who are not have the mental capacity to make decisions for themselves, children are another reason or an hour allowing people who are dying to have a family member come in. Oh, that's good. I, you know, yeah. But for the most part, he needs that. For the most part, we're returning people, a lot of people away or meeting them downstairs. If they need to bring something in for that patient will have a runner, go downstairs to the front desk, pick it up from the family member and take it to the patient. Oh, my goodness. the world we live in. Yeah, I know. It's really extreme case. So, someone is on a ventilator, but like what percentage of those who want a ventilator even get off the ventilator? And how can you tell if they're strong enough if they're actually sedated and restrained, that there's progress made, that they can be off the ventilator?
Yeah, to evaluate someone coming off of a ventilator takes an intensive care physician will be calling intensivist. They are managing my hospital; they manage these patients. And so, there's a whole what we call a weaning protocol. Where we try you know, once we think we've got a handle on someone's condition that caused him to be intubated in the first place if their labs are looking better their blood gases, which look at the amount of oxygen, carbon dioxide and the acid base balance, if those are all looking good, we feel like someone's improving, we slowly turn down the amount of support that the machine provides. So, let's say you know, as we're, you know, room air oxygen saturations about what 20 21%. So, on a ventilator, we can give someone 100% oxygen, so pure oxygen, but we can do any range of that. So, we, over time, we want to decrease that amount of oxygen. There are different modes in the ventilator, some that completely take over the function of the lungs altogether, and the machine just gives air and takes it out. And there are other instances where requires the person to initiate the breath, and then the Just kind of gives them a little push to help them.
Lisa Beres
What is that called, I think a CPAP machine?
Dr. Victor Sanders
No, a CPAP is completely different is the mask that goes around the face. Okay, that's called continuous positive airway pressure. The ventilator has many modes, like pressure support, ventilator support. I don't know all of them in particular, because I don't, I don't need to manage those. And that's done with the intensivist and the respiratory therapists. But there are ways to allow the patient to test to see if the patient can take a deep breath on their own, how much tidal volume or the amount of oxygen they inhale in one breath, they can bring in on their own. So, you do that gradually over time. And on these weaning trials, if they keep failing these, they have to stay on the ventilator. And over time, if they don't come off the ventilator, you're putting a trach tracheostomy. So that way, you can then get this person get that out of their mouth. Start getting that you know Halo because that's more of the long-term thing is through When someone's recovering for months and months, you need the support of a ventilator.
Lisa Beres
And that's major surgery right to get?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Um, it's definitely a surgical procedure. It's not that invasive, we can typically do it at the bedside in the ICU, just like a cardiothoracic surgeon that does, it makes a small incision. And it's a pretty straightforward and pretty quick procedure. Okay, but the effects on it, do I do that? Yeah.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
It's still invasive.
Lisa Beres
And the ventilator, I guess, it's just a tube that goes down your throat, can they talk when they're on the ventilator?
Dr. Victor Sanders
No, you're completely in a�
Lisa Beres
Ron, we would not do well.
Dr. Victor Sanders
That's why advanced directives and you know, code status and designating someone as a decision-maker are so crucial because if you have no one to make decisions on your behalf, it falls to the next person in your family. So, like the A lot of people don't have these discussions with their significant others or partners or family to say, here's what I would want to be done for me if I'm on a ventilator for a month. And so, it's you need to have these tests. He's advanced directives, and discussions with families like, here's what I would want you to do for me and designate someone who's making decisions. Because once you're on a ventilator, you're not going to remember it.
Lisa Beres
But this is an important point to make that not just because of covid. But in general, it's important to discuss these and have these kinds of conversations with your family, because you never know, if you're going to get into an accident or anything like that. And it's, you know, we had a tragic event in our family and something happened with my brother in law and wife and he was telling us that they didn't have an advanced directive, and it ended up causing some issues with not being able to access some of her medical records that had to be on file. And he had said to us, you guys, make sure you have one. And it's interesting because these are conversations that you know, you're not having with your family and you're not being taught this in school or you know, so I think the taboo of is something going to happen, are you going to get sick like we have to kind of just have those conversations and make sure that we have things in place now an advanced directive. Do you get that through a notary? Or could you actually if you just wrote something and signed it? Would that be legitimate enough? Or does it have to be through a hospital protocol?
Dr. Victor Sanders
In the hospital setting, we can take a verbal, you know, if you come in and you're having a hard time breathing, you're really sick, like, I want her, she'll be my wife, she'll be making my decision. That's all as your physician, that's all I need, you know, because there's no one Advanced Directive in place. Then you go to the person who knows you the best and typically, that's your partner. That's a family member. And someone has to step up. And so, there are you can download forms off the internet for like a durable power of attorney. For advanced directives, they do need a notary, those forms because they're much more in-depth of like, when you die, what do you want to be done? Very detailed, and hospital emergency setting. You just tell me who to talk to and I will touch base, I will make sure that person is informed and get and get decisions made from that
Dr. Justyna Sanders
first preparedness. Just do it again. ahead of time. Yeah,
Lisa Beres
absolutely. Yes, you're under a lot of stress at that point, no matter what, you know, that's the last thing you need is more stress.
Dr. Victor Sanders
There's the last thing you want to do is like, if you haven't had the discussion and someone's super sick and you're contemplating end of life care, is to feel like you made that decision to remove your loved one from care versus they made the call and paperwork months ago, and you're simply executing their wish.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And, then the trauma that you have to or some people do, and you're from making such a decision for the rest of their lives. I mean, that's just that's too much for somebody.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, I'm always shocked in life, how much we know about reality TV and sports and so little about some of these important things, you know, our health.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
most definitely, it comes down to education, right? And these kinds of conversations to really get you the information that you need and maybe stir curiosity for you to go do your own research, but to really make those decisions that are those pivotal decisions in your life. That could save your life. That's where you should be educated. You know, we need to talk about that. It's a whole process dying is a whole process in itself. And it's not shouldn't be about fear-mongering, mongering, but rather empowerment that, hey, you know, like, we all know that this is a transient time, we're not going to be here forever. And let's just, you know, squeeze all the lemon juice out of the lemon, you know, like you make the most out of it and do it in an educated well-informed way. That's Well said. Well, great point. Great point. Now we're talking about some extreme cases of the ventilators. But are there any treatments at this point that could help with treating COVID-19? And for example, like what are your thoughts on Hydroxychloroquine when zinc and maybe the Z Pak combo on helping patients, either in beginning stages or later stages recover from this?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Sure. So just let your listeners know as of right now, there's no FDA approved treatment for COVID Well, we have been using as an off-label use of medications already on the market trying to see if they would have some effect on it. And so, hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, remdesivir, convalescent plasma. And then you mentioned Azithromycin, or we call it Z-Pack. I have personally been involved in the care of patients who have received all of these modalities of treatment. Currently, hydroxychloroquine has been pulled by the FDA to no longer be allowed to urge in use and that was due to too many cardiac arrhythmias. There's cardiac toxicity, if you will, with that drug. When you combine it with Azithromycin? it amplifies it. We call a prolonged qTC. Basically, you get a normal heart rhythm, you go into arrhythmia and your heart can stop. So, they remove that remdesivir has been as a 10-day trial for patients who are very severely sick so you can only get this if you're in a hospital setting. There has a trial that's been done, looked at 1063 patients over a 10-day course of getting this medication, and found that it decreased your recovery time. 15 to 11 days, so about 31% increased, and the recovery was deemed as someone who's able to be discharged out of the hospital or returned to their normal activities of life prior to. So that was a significant improvement. It has fewer negative effects to the hydroxychloroquine. So right now, my hospital has just finished the trial end of May, for doing a lot of patients with that. And so, we've been using all these things convalescent plasma, basically giving the plasma of someone who's recovered from the virus and therefore has antibodies to someone who's acutely infected with it. I haven't seen a lot of data on the efficacy of that treatment. It's still something that we're able to use. One of the more recent things that have come out of the UK is using a low dose steroid called dexamethasone, in patients, a very small subset of very sick who are needing supplemental oxygen. So, you need oxygen through either another device like nasal cannula c pap or on a ventilator and severely sick that trial data is being done. Now, on to the National Health Service and Oxford University. They're looking at 2100 patients versus 4300 patients who get usual care. So that is the study. So, they're showing some promising results. And so, we can use it on an emergency use basis only in the hospital. But it's not something I recommend anyone going to their doctor right now and getting, because we don't want to use up the supply that we might need for people in the hospital. Excellent. Well, there certainly has been a lot of pressure on hydrochloric when, but more specifically, combined with zinc. And I thought, but some of the studies that were out there didn't have that combination with zinc. And it also is z Pak combo. Is that true? Or were there studies specifically on those combinations of drugs together?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
What I've been finding is actually with zinc in particular, yes, I have not seen many studies where zinc is used in conjunction with hydroxychloroquine. Which is interesting because 25% approximately at least it's out Estimated so that of the US population is zinc deficient. So, if you're using hydroxy core Quinn, the whole mechanism of action is to allow zinc to enter the cell much easier. So intracellularly and zinc acts in a way to actually go in into the replicates, which is this thing we call the RNA dependent RNA polymerase. This is the replication stage of the virus, a coronavirus, or other types of viruses, respiratory viruses we've seen in MERS and SARS. And what it does is it basically targets that and attacks that and that's what zinc does. But if we have so many people who are deficient, either not absorbing it or not getting it through their diet, most likely. Mmm. Right, like you're back to that the whole lifestyle thing. You know, then if you're giving them hydroxychloroquine theoretically, it would make sense that that drug wouldn't be as effective because you need the zinc in order to go in and do its part.
Dr. Victor Sanders
Right, we have us think in the hospital with hydroxychloroquine. So, he has his patients, but we don't know and I haven't really seen in the research than using those both in conjunction in all the different studies with hydroxychloroquine. I personally haven't I want to say with the trials in the hospital, you did not need zinc was not part of the study trial, I think they were just trying to see if the drug on its own would work in a combo or without a combination of azithromycin or the Z Pak. But the cardiotoxic effects and arrhythmias were too great to continue. So, it's been pulled from emergency use by the FDA.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Well, it's really interesting on the topic of zinc is these things that we call zinc ion force. And these are channels that are formed on top of a cell membrane. And zinc ionophores if you give something to somebody where it can create this type of channel for zinc to be better, to be better optimized. So, to be able to enter into the cell and do its thing and then the replication stage, that would be really beneficial. And so, they're finding with remdesivir as a zinc ionophore this has that sort of effect. But again, I'll bring it back. If someone is deficient in zinc or they're not getting enough zinc in their diets, you do not store zinc in your body. So sure, it's found in skeletal muscle and whatnot. But once you use it up on a daily basis, you need to replenish it the very next day. So, it's not like vitamin B 12, for instance, that you store in the liver for up to three to five years. Once you have enough stores, you're good for three to five years just in case but we in the whole food plant-based movement, always recommend b 12. Anyway, but what zinc is one of those things that you don't store and so every single day, you need a dose of zinc from your diet.
Lisa Beres
We're gonna get into foods but tell us really quick what some foods high in zinc that we could do.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Just every day you guys see a lot of people don't know this but like pumpkin seeds and hemp seeds and all different types of seeds, they actually have more per percentile of zinc than beef does. So, for instance, 100 grams, he has 44% of your daily value of zinc whereas just 30 grams of seeds any kind of seeds has approximately 40% so if you multiply 90 grams of seeds has over 100% of your daily intake.
Lisa Beres
Wow, that's great. Oh, yeah. We got we have all vegans on the call today.
Ron Beres
The producer too, by the way, producer.
Lisa Beres
So that's really okay. So great. You know, it's funny, I don't do enough seeds. So now I am. I've got my warning. Could you supplement still if you can't get it in your diet every day?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
You can most definitely supplement two things. I have a problem with supplements number one, the adulteration. And you don't know what you're getting, it has to be a reputable source. I always, you know, ask and encourage people to look at the certificates of analyses of the products that nobody does that.
Lisa Beres
Do they give you the look? Like, what are you talking about?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah. What do you want to know what is in the supplements that you're taking? Unfortunately, because they are not FDA regulated the supplement industry, you can pretty much find anything in supplements and people will buy it. So Oh, gotcha. The tricky thing. And another thing with supplements is that zinc binds copper. So, having too much zinc in your diet, especially from a supplement, which is usually high potency, high dose, you have a risk of binding copper therefore you won't be absorbing copper and copper is important for other biochemical reactions. So it's about that you know, the balance and that's always the best way I always say the best way to know your levels if anything you know is to go to the doctor and get a comprehensive I'm testing of all the vitamins, minerals and cofactors and enzymes and everything you have, but no one does that either.
Lisa Beres
I was going to say that we go to a functional integrative center and integrative MD, and they are very aggressive with the testing, although your insurance company doesn't cover like a lot of that. So, your bill, you're always a little shocked. When you see the bill, you�re like, what happened to my insurance? Oh, yeah, they paid for $20 of it. Some are better than others. But so you do have to, that's a really great point, you do have to kind of speak up, be your own proponent of your health and say, hey, I want you to test more than just the basic that's going to be covered. Yeah, I know a lot of people you know, are budgeting and worried about that. But it is an investment in your health. It is an investment to get those full panels done right.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Absolutely. Every year. And I always say challenge your doctor. You know, a lot of them haven't had the education that you might have had or the exposure that you might have had with nutrition and all the things are starting to come out about Yeah, you can reverse chronic diseases it's you know, you don't have to be on medications for the rest of your life. And many of these doctors who may be a don't stay on top of the research or be just haven't had the exposure just haven't had that, you know, that kind of education. You don't challenge them, bring these up with them. And they might think you're a hypochondriac at one point, but who cares, you're your own, you know, the CEO of your health, the greatest health advocate, advocate for yourself. So, you got one life and you gotta, you know, you got to live it.
Lisa Beres
So right and not just live it but live it well, right. I mean, I know we all on the call here agree with that. It's not just about kind of surviving through this. It's about thriving, you know, that's been my big turning point is, you know, I was really sick when I got sick from my toxins and a new home. And, you know, you can fall into this slippery slope of, well, I'm just getting by, you know, and I'm doing this I'm just getting by and, you know, no, that's not a life like you need to thrive and you need to feel good and you need to have energy.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, it's not about a lifespan. It's about a healthspan.
Lisa Beres
I love that. It's not about a lifespan, its about a healthspan. I love it. tagline. Okay, so what can people do? And I know everybody listening is saying, hey, Well, okay, this is all great. But what can I do right now to prevent COVID-19? And assuming they should take the Ron earthquake strap, proactive measures?
Dr. Victor Sanders
That would be Ron�s approach � it would be a hazmat suit. Yeah, we're all safe. We're all safe. Exactly. I think what we're hearing out there and what people are basically not adhering to, we need to adhere to it. The obvious hygiene being the biggest thing, as well as the masking, not touching your face, don't touch your eyes, washing your hands, common surfaces, what do you know, what are you touching other people have touched, and the social distancing. We know how this thing is transmitted. We can do simple measures to prevent that.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, one thing I want to bring up is a lot of people don't know that. But one of the number one preventive measures for us for basically preventing infectious diseases in all of history we've seen is none other than. So, it's hygiene, public health measures. So, it's not the advancements in technology that have actually created longer lifespans. You know, I'm not talking about healthspan. But lifespans. It's actually hygiene, sanitation. These are the measures that we've seen in history that have actually helped allow humans to live much longer. So, I can't tell you how many times and I don't know if you guys have seen this, but realize six, seven years I've been saying, I have not seen one person in public wash their hands properly. Where're the 23 seconds? Where's the soap? I see. Five seconds. I see no soap I see. Just fingertips eyes, you know, and I it's no wonder and I'm all about it. You know, having a healthy microbiome and exposing yourself to dirt and getting in the garden instead of talking about like fecal matter transmitting, you know, diseases,
Dr. Victor Sanders
Or somebody else's microbiome?
Lisa Beres
Yeah, no, I don't want a fecal implant. I've heard about those No.
Dr. Victor Sanders
Fecal transplant. Yeah, Ron would be your donor.
Unknown Speaker
Oh, no, no. I know they help, but no.
Dr. Victor Sander
You�d clean, clean. That's for sure.
Lisa Beres
You're right. Dr. Justyna. That's such a good point. We did a show on homemade hand sanitizers and what's in sanitizers and we have articles on our website, that you know, everyone's just going hand sanitizer crazy. And like you said, just the soap with a good 2-second wash, scrubbing in between.
Ron Beres
Lisa, she said 23 seconds. So okay, okay.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
23 is okay. Great. Get that 20 seconds.
Lisa Beres
Yeah. Happy birthday, the ABCs sing, you know. And then also, I think a lot of people don't realize that a lot of the hand sanitizers on the market, yes, they have that 70% alcohol, but they also have a lot of additives like synthetic fragrances that can have endocrine-disrupting chemicals in there and they can have thickeners and a lot of other things that can be toxic. They're also extremely drying. Right?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, when you get your cracked skin, you're more susceptible to catching all kinds of things. Right? Yeah, you bring up a very good point about the adulteration and methanol, we're seeing studies of people having methanol and so many of these newer products. I mean, that's toxic. What are you doing you know, and that's not what we're talking about here?
Lisa Beres
We're talking about health so yeah, we talked to a chemist who said hey, if you're in the worst-case scenario, just use alcohol you know, rubbing alcohol of 70% just plain right and I bought we bought a hand sanitizer at the store and you know, everything was gone from the shelves, so we just took whatever we could get in this hand. This hand sanitizer is kind of we put it in the car as a backup at the guard gasps Whatever. It smells so disgusting. It smells like tequila. And it's called Bahama breeze or something.
Lisa Beres
It like nauseates me I don't use, but Ron uses it sometimes I'm like, I'm suddenly craving a margarita. Oh, it's so gross. That company was happy to still be in business, I guess.
Dr. Victor Sanders
People were buying up Everclear when that was wiped, you're going to liquor stores and buying Everclear bottles. So, I think they're 160 proof for say, making their own from Everclear.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Which brings us to the point of how bad is our healthcare system and how ill-equipped are we? Yeah, yeah. kinds of situations. I mean, shouldn't you have been prepared?
Lisa Beres
Yeah, why didn't we learn these things from the beginning? Right, you know? So this shows how important because I really I know we're going to get into, you know, more of the immune system and that kind of stuff and what we can do just in our everyday life and really being proactive and taking responsibility, right taking responsibility for your health and you know, Ron dive into teaching people about getting toxins out of their home in life, so that you don't your body burden load isn't so high. And you know, people tend to pay attention when they need to when it's an emergency versus doing these things ahead of time.
Ron Beres
That's a great point. I really want to ask you, doctors, exactly how does the immune system work? And before I asked you that I did have a quick thought I was thinking, Okay, we're all for social distancing and staying away from people. But let's say you're on a hike by yourself, would you recommend wearing your mask Because ultimately, from what I understand, and what I've been reading, is when you're breathing out carbon dioxide, you're breathing it back in. And so that's not so good for your body? I would, I would think, right. You're not affecting anyone else but yourself. What would you suggest in those scenarios, I've seen a lot of people hiking and running and exerting a lot of energy and breathe in carbon dioxide from the mask?
Dr. Victor Sanders
They're wearing you could probably hypothesize that their carbon dioxide level might go up a little bit in the bloodstream. But these masks are designed so that the holes in them allow oxygen still to come through. So, and allows molecules to still exchange. It's all based on the particle size of what they're allowing. So, I wear a mask. As soon as I stepped foot out of my car onto hospital property, I'm in a mask. I only take it off when I eat. Or I'm sitting somewhere where I can shut the door and be by myself and like a small dictation room or something. So, I'm wearing it all day. I haven't had felt lightheaded. I haven't felt dizzy. I haven't seen anyone passing out being hypoxic or having a low oxygen level. I haven't seen any of that. And, you know, we're busy all day long in the hospital physicians, nursing staff, cleaning crew, everyone, visitors, everyone's wearing a mask and you're not seeing it. You're not hearing about it. I don't think it's something to be concerned about. Now, if you're running or doing like a CrossFit workout, with a mask on I don't know how That's going to be I just don't, I just don't know, I would say you're going to, it's going to be harder to breathe. And so, it might be like exercising at an elevated climb or elevate elevation to kind of give yourself that edge in endurance sports, but I don't know what it's going to do to you.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
In terms of studies or anything like that, we haven't seen anything in particular, but common sense a clear. If you're in the middle of the forest, by yourself, take your mask off.
Lisa Beres
And because we see a lot of people driving in their cars by themselves with their mask on, maybe it's because they don't want to keep taking it on and off. But yeah, no, at that point, I'm like, I think it'd be better to get some fresh oxygen.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, that's the only concern is, you know, the concern of reinfecting yourself. So, let's say you have viral particles on your mask. And let's say you're touching it with your hands, taking the mask off. Maybe now it's on your hands, maybe when you put it back on. Maybe you can Get the viral particles. Now inside the mess. There's just that concern. Again, the research, I don't know, I've not seen studies to show and definitively prove that. But that has been concerns that have been brought up by the World Health Organization, or at least I've seen that. Yeah, there were a couple of things.
Ron Beres
So, one of the reasons why I asked you there are some videos that were popular where someone was actually taking a reading a while wearing the mask and air reading on carbon dioxide. And the levels were considered pretty toxic, right? I don't know the exact level was or what those examples were. But that was one example. And then the other one was if someone had COVID already, and they had it in their system, they were discovered by them wearing a mask. They're actually breathing in and then COVID was going to their brain. Is that true?
Lisa Beres
New York, and it was some New York hospitals. I think.
Ron Beres
it was I so since we have both doctors here, I wanted I just wanted to know you might not be familiar with that?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Yeah. How are you mentioning about like constantly staying infected because you're Just re breathing viral particles? And that meaning like a prolonged infectious period, or what I don't, I don't know.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
But let's just say, Ron, if someone is positive COVID, we would kindly ask them to stay at home. Thank you.
Ron Beres
That's true. Right. And so, I was just I was curious about data, you know, just wanted to get your opinion on that. But getting back to the immune system, which we all agree, we have to make strong and basically optimize our immune system. How do we do that? And what exactly do you guys do?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
You know, we have two different types of immunity. So, there's an innate immune system as well as an acquired immune system. So, when you think of those two and innate is basically what we're born with, it's in our genetic makeup, it's our natural killer cells. It's our macrophages which there are little scavengers, it's that type of immunity, whereas our acquired immune system is a b T cell-mediated immune system with antibodies you know, you keep hearing antibodies and then in the news, herd immunity. And we'll, we'll touch on that. So, this is what we acquire or build up over time based on our exposures based on our lifestyle and things like that. So, it's important to look at both. And when it comes to COVID. And actually, when it comes to any kind of illness, infectious disease, you have to think about boosting versus optimizing the immune system. So, what do you do? Right? A lot of people are confused, should we boost it, like make it so intense? Like, you know, fight for me all the time kind of thing? Or should we just optimize it? So, we're finding with COVID-19 is that depending on your baseline, I'm going to touch on this. But depending on your baseline, it's most likely better to optimize your immune system as opposed to boost your immune system, especially if you're positive for or have signs and symptoms for COVID. At that stage, you want to have an optimized immune system.
Ron Beres
The reason why is this whole concept, optimum versus boosted I? What exactly does that mean? First, I don't know if our listeners understand that concept, at least I didn't.
Lisa Beres
I know one of our listeners does not know.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, optimizing your immune system is basically where all of your inflammatory mediators are and your immune cells, your white cells are working in cohesion, all of your biochemical reactions are in check. everything's working the way it's supposed to help you fight any pathogen that comes your way. Any foreign invader and your immune system should be able to fight that naturally. And so, whether it's an innate or an acquired immunity, it's supposed to be able to fight any kind of pathogen. However, there are situations where depending on your underlying cause, or underlying condition, medical condition, so if you have heart disease, kidney disease, if you have type two diabetes, for any instance, your immune system is much more sensitive, much more vulnerable now, because it will not work in an optimal way. So, it won't work as well as an immune system in someone who's completely healthy, who doesn't have an underlying medical condition who isn't on any medications for anything. So, when you compare those two people, one person has more of an optimized immune system that can work better for them, whereas another person, now their immune system has to work harder. So, in that vulnerable system, where maybe you have a medical condition or you're on a drug for a certain medical condition, you want to optimize your immune system. And in fact, in those people, you might want to boost it. So, optimizing is where your immune system is just working, like I said, just in a natural state, normal state, the way it's supposed to boosting. It is where you are lacking so much in immunity because you're already so inflamed, so sick, your immune system is just, you know, an over or not an overdrive, your immune system is suppressed. And so now you have to compensate for that. So, in order to do that you have to possibly rev it up, boost it up, and there's so many things that you can do nutrition-wise and lifestyle-wise that can help to aid that.
Lisa Beres
That was a great explanation. So ultimately, we want to have optimized immune systems we should and but if you're in a dire situation like these immunocompromised then you need the boost. Yeah, some that's good. Okay, perfect. And then in some of these things would be I'm guessing, your vitamins, your minerals, your food, and then like, would you recommend vitamin drips, the vitamin C and D and those kinds of things?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah. So, there are so many different things and we'll bring it back to the zinc that we discussed earlier. So, zinc is an essential mineral you know in the seeds and nuts and beans, legumes, all that you can get it from your nutrition. And so, you know, this is something really important to incorporate into your lifestyle. Now what helps zinc go in or zinc ionophores? So, these channels, so we found that in the plant kingdom and a plant world these bioflavonoids called egcg, which is epi Gallo, catechin gallate.
Lisa Beres
And we don't have to repeat you say that fast. I hope there won't be a quiz at the end.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And egcg that's found in green tea, oh act as a zinc ionophore so it allows basically zinc to go back into the cell intracellularly and act in the way it's supposed to. And when it comes to COVID it's theoretical Of course, but it will make sense that having these zinc ion forums such as egcg from green tea and drinking Green tea on a daily basis will allow these ink ionophores these channels to form that will allow zinc to go into the cell and act in the way it's supposed to, to attack the replication stage of, you know, the COVID-19 infection theoretically makes sense. And we've seen that in research, at least in cell culture that it has worked in that way. Another amazing bioflavonoid aside from egcg is course it in and course it in in the plant kingdom can be found in onions. So, you guys get those onions.
Lisa Beres
We're onion people.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Superfoods such as watercress, you can find that in certain stores, great, great source of chlorophyll to a lot of people, you know, right. And in cilantro, so these are just like, that some people might find at any grocery store type of thing.
Lisa Beres
But yeah, a lot of the foods you mentioned are prominent foods in like an Asian diet. Do countries have lower numbers. I wonder.
Dr. Victor Sanders
We don't know. Reporting correctly. Maybe we don't. Yeah,
Dr. Justyna Sanders
We don't know. But that's interesting.
Lisa Beres
About the green tea. I know years ago it was all over the news about it being contaminated some types of green tea, what is the thing that we want to avoid and look for with green tea? So, metals; was contaminated with some kind of heavy metals?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, there's heavy metals and a lot of it you're right for sure. And so, I always say look at the certificate of analysis. And then if you don't, at least I say stick to lose green teas, as opposed to the bags. I personally don't like a lot of the ones with the bags because if they Leach chemicals as well, so loose green teas, you're better off that way.
Lisa Beres
Organic, you're so many bags that a lot of those new bags have plastics, right? They're like nano plastics, and they're oh my gosh, they're getting everywhere like they're permeating the oceans, but they're also small.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, you bring up a good point because it's those bioplastics that people think oh, well, you know, these will disintegrate once you know, throw it in the trash? Will they disintegrate into these micro little particles? Yeah, but you can't see, but it's still doing and wreaking havoc in the same way that you know, in your body.
Lisa Beres
Yes. And in your body. I mean, if it's disintegrating, it's going to be disintegrating in a hot cup of liquid, I would think.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And then it's affecting our soil, and then the soil is affecting our plants, and then it goes on and on with our microbiome.
Lisa Beres
Okay, so bring bringing back to antibodies. We just touched on that a little bit. So, if you contract COVID-19, does that mean that you have immunity to future exposures, and therefore you won't contract it again? And is there such thing as herd immunity, we've heard about this. I'd love your explanation because all I know about it is you get it from vaccines. You can also get it naturally I thought if enough people get it. So, I'd love to hear your breakdown on that.
Dr. Victor Sanders
So, we can talk about like, we thought about antibodies first and then we get into the herd immunity. Okay, antibodies are now like a big Hot Topic when it comes to COVID. Because now it's gonna, you know, right now my hospital is also part of a trial of testing healthcare workers if they have antibodies or not. So, I've been tested, I don't have them. I'm going to have another blood drawn a couple more weeks just to see, the question becomes not so much. It's a multiple part kind of approach. You have to take it as one does you have antibodies? And two? Are they going to offer you any protective benefits so just because you have antibodies does not make you immune to the virus? So, let's if we're going to stick with COVID, and we've seen that just because you might get the virus to you might not make antibodies even in and that's an instance a study came out about Sweden. We all know Sweden has sparked a lot of controversy by approaching the pandemic with herd immunity. Only 6% of the population has antibodies so When it comes to herd immunity, you need a large proportion, we're talking 70% of your population to have antibodies of six. So, it takes a while to get there. But before we digress into the herd immunity antibodies, you know, hospitalized patients are more likely to have neutralizing antibodies. So, by neutralizing, I mean that ones that can actually stop viral replication. So a recent study just came out, I believe, the past week or so from the journal Nature, looked at 111 patients out of New York and Rockefeller hospitals, New York was the hotspot when it came to the US looked at 111 patients who are positive and then looked at 46, asymptomatic household contacts of those people and looking at who's got the antibodies. What does it mean? Who's immune who's not, and they found that 20 to 30% didn't make antibodies at a significant level above the asymptomatic contacts, which are the controls Third, didn't have antibodies beyond what someone just living in the house who never had symptoms also had. They looked at, and they saw that 79% of the patients only had partial immunity. That's only 111 people. So, it's not a lot. The studies not very powerful. But it's just it's our first glimpse into what the antibodies, what benefit do they offer and what is their meaning. And so, there's a point of the benchmark of looking at antibodies is a thing we call in t 50, which is neutralizing titer 50, the number of antibodies needed to decrease the replication of the virus by 50%. So, only 80% of people had partial immunity. So, they had a little bit of it, but not above it. You want to get to like a titer of like, thousands. Not very many people have single digits. Wow. So partial immunity. So, what exactly does that mean? Like you have some of the antibodies but not enough to ever stop it from affecting us that we mean you might contract the virus again. For the second time, Oh, I see, Oh, you got really sick, then you could theorize that the second time around you might not get as sick.
Lisa Beres
So, it might be beneficial. Yeah. Are you pro a vaccine for this then? And if so, mass vaccination or more just, you know, the immune-compromised or thought on that?
Dr. Victor Sanders
I mean, it's a very complicated answer to be. in this situation where we're creating a vaccine, we're fast-tracking it. We're not going to have years to look at it and do multiple clinical trials to look at larger and larger patient populations to see what the long-term effects are on this. We're going to produce it and someone is going to decide subjectively, that this has some benefit, and then boom, they're going to mass-produce it and then people I think, will rather take it take their chances than taking them getting current with the code. And possibly die. We don't know the long-term effects. So, we're treading on dangerous waters here, I think by going after a mass vaccination of everybody, yeah, versus letting your body and your immune system be exposed to it. And when what's going to happen? That's a big unknown for people too. So, I think both are pretty big unknowns. And it's going to be difficult to say, is there one that offers more advantages and more benefits than the other? And what is the ultimate? You know, what is the ultimate end goal here because if we're going towards a here a herd immunity, which Several studies have thought that we need to get to 70, if not 80% immunity, meaning damage of the population, so we're looking at 200 plus million people in our country need to have antibodies either by way of vaccination, or by getting the virus but then as we just mentioned, just because you get the virus doesn't mean you have the mental appropriate level of immunity. The people who die don't contribute to her immunity. Think about that, too. That's counted in the numbers of people who are tested positive. But if they're dead, they can't protect the rest of people, right? Because Yeah, or immunity is you try to get the majority of the population immune to a disease so that you stop the spread, you stop the transmission, but you need to get 70% of people either mass vaccinated, who knows how long that will take in the next year before we have a viable vaccine, with no long term data to go off of, or you let 70% of the population gets sick, and you're having a mortality rate that is higher than influenza? It's not lower, it is higher.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
I mean, it's going to be a difficult decision to like, what do you do if you do have a vaccine? You know, finally available? Will you be first in line? Or do you wait it out and see what the effects are over time? I think you know that another point that needs to be brought up and really discussed and we should be having this conversation in the medical community and on the news right now, is what people can be doing right now to again, strengthen the immune system, change our lifestyle, reverse chronic diseases, we need to be more aware of what we're doing on a daily basis, the cumulative actions that we basically have every single day on our body the effect that every single action that you have in your lifestyle has on our human body. That's what we should be considering how your diet is, how you're sleeping, are you exercising? Who do you surround yourself with? What kind of toxic chemicals are lurking in every single thing that you expose yourself to on a daily basis, whether it's mold or plastic, or something like that? These are the conversations we should be having now. And these are what I hoped in a month, two months from now are what we'll only be talking about, where we can finally say, hey, it's time for our healthcare system to wake up. It's time People wake up take their health into their own hands. And it's time to transform.
Lisa Beres
Whoo, wow, powerful. I felt that it was an award speech. And that was great. You just don't see any news coverage on this. And it's unfortunate. And that's why, you know, when, like Ron and I and in you and both of you are going and telling people Hey, you know, it's really, really important that you clean up toxins out of your life. They like, Oh, well, that's true. It'd be all over the news. It's just not I mean, you really have to research and dig and understand and you mentioned so many things that are so important that people don't think about your sleep and even the people you surround yourself with, right, your spiritual toxicity, right, the toxicity of conversations, the toxicity of like too much negativity, too much negative news, you know, adding in meditation or prayer or whatever that is for you into your life where you can quiet your mind and, you know, heal yourself that way and of course, electromagnetic radiation which Ron and I are very big proponents against, it's just we live in such a wireless world and all of these things are kind of now having these synergistic effects where everything's getting bombarded and our body is getting less and less time to, to heal and to calm down and recuperate. I don't know if you guys saw this, but Israel announced an antibody that neutralizes Coronavirus, even among those infected. I just happened to see that I don't know too much about it, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Dr. Victor Sanders
No, I'll take a look at I haven't seen that. Yeah, I mean, there's it seems like there's something every day that comes out about an antibody. Now there was no information coming out of China for about people who have been infected that their antibody titers are dropping off after two months. The titers, basically the concentration of the antibodies in their bloodstream.
Dr. Victor Sanders
Even a few days ago, we looked at antibodies in terms of a titer amount. So, when you get tested or get a booster you need to boost up your antibody titers right? So, we have no idea what an antibody-positive antibody test means and someone given immunity is at partial immunity. How long does it last? And versus you know, getting the infection versus a vaccine? same questions are the vaccine gave immunity. How long is it going to last?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
What are the negative effects?
Dr. Victor Sanders
Those things? Six months, the rest of your life?
Lisa Beres
Yeah, I love what you said. I think I mean; I know for me; I would not be first in line. But then again, I'm super, super proactive with my health. I think you know, if you were you had an immunocompromised system. That's a different story. You know, you're now weighing out the pros and cons. But it does seem to me that if you are healthy, and you don't have those risk factors that you mentioned at the beginning of the show, you know, it's risky. It's risky to go in and put yourself into a position where these untested vaccines haven't gone through animal trials and things.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Yeah, the only concern that we're seeing with COVID-19 specifically, is this cytokine storm Where the immune system goes into a hyper-inflammatory type of state and reaction. And this is very unique to this kind of respiratory infection because in the typical Coronavirus or Rhinovirus, or some kind of these are the types of viruses that we see in the common cold. We don't see something like a cytokine storm reaction where the immune system is like, too robust, too strong. This is why I talked about the optimizing versus the robust so when someone who's healthy, you might not want to just overdo something like for instance, vitamin d3 supplementation and elderberry have been found that if you are already positive for COVID, those two things you might want to be wary of taking during the time of you having COVID or having the manifestations of COVID-19 because it could drive the immune system into hyper overdrive where you're releasing these chemicals. cytokines, chemo kings Your body's now destroying not just you're not just the infectious tissue, but also the healthy tissue. And then the integrity of that. And that we've seen and you've seen in the hospital, people really quickly decline if they do enter that type of state.
Ron Beres
Wow, a high level of vitamin D. I mean, if people take a supplement typically or what would be something like Hey, don't do this because they may be asymptomatic and not note that have COVID but they're taking a lot of vitamin D, what would be that?
Dr. Justyna Sanders
So, if you're asymptomatic, you don't really have to worry, right? You can keep taking vitamin d3 because if you're asymptomatic and you don't have symptoms then but once you start seeing signs and symptoms, I will okay I personally from the research that I've been seeing on vitamin d3 during the time where you have signs and symptoms of COVID I would say just stop it for that time being.
Lisa Beres
You know, I don't know if I'm going to say that right, cytokine storm is that I read something we have a colleague who created the Barefoot earthing pad. I don't know if you're familiar with that. It's that. Yeah. earthing grounding going back to that grounding. And he was saying that that is really good at countering that just the grounding and getting your feet on the earth. And if you can't do that walking barefoot, obviously if you can't do that, then there's the pads and the grounding pads. Figured I'd throw that out there. Okay, so we got to wrap up and I would love to have you guys back. This has been so incredible. And so, eye-opening you guys are such a wealth of knowledge and you're such a little power couple.
Lisa Beres
We've dined together twice over very wonderful, vibrant, colorful, plant-based organic vegan food.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
I can't wait. We can actually connect again and human, human touch, you know?
Lisa Beres
And you know, that'd be great.
Ron Beres
So, thanks for what you guys do. This is incredible. And you guys are the real deal too because we're vegan, but we didn't realize there were different levels of vegan your hardcore vegan. It was like you're avoiding oils and things like that.
Lisa Beres
Yeah, make you and me look like rebels, Ron.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Well, you're probably rebels in the household with all of your toxic-free everything.
Lisa Beres
We challenge each other. I love that. And I love meeting people who do make you better and who inspire you right to do your best. So, you know, the silver lining here, I think is that people are, you know, paying more attention, hopefully. And hopefully, after this podcast, you've gotten some great tips from the doctors, Sanders, both of them and that you implement a more plant-based movement. I know we're not going to have time to get into all of what that looks like, but maybe on another show, we could get into just the food and diet. And then what do you guys think the future looks like within terms of living with COVID? What will we get back to a new normal? Will we get to take those masks off and like, get back to somewhat of a normal or do you think this is going to last for quite some time?
Dr. Victor Sanders
I think this will last for quite some time. And that could be that we're, it's a topic in the news, it's on everyone's discussion. Every day numbers would be coming out; I think that's going to be for a while. I think what's happened is when we started to bend the curve, and we went into lockdown, we obviously the balance of coming out with the economic toll it was taking, you know, you had to find some time to be like, we got to just take a chance, I think the biggest thing was to let healthcare get ready to absorb the hit. So, I think now with we still have a lot of the population who went into lockdown her still worried coming out, there's still going to be at risk of catching it because of everyone else. And so, I think we're still going to have cases, at least for the remainder of the year for sure. Where we're still going to be having the practice of social distancing the masks and being mindful of where we go and who we are around, and what's you know, who we associate with, and where do we go, we're gonna have to be mindful that I think it's Something that we're going to have to Be mindful for, I think forever. So, this is a virus that it's so new, we don't know what's going to do. If it's just a onetime thing and done, or it's going to come around every year, like influenza, and just be a different variety of HSN. We have no idea. Yeah, so it could be around. We've already seen it mutating. Who knows if those are going to be even stronger than the current strain of the more prominent strain that first came out? We have no idea. So, I think we need to get used to what we're doing. Make this the mask, you know, this distancing the hygiene, number one, the hygiene.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
Just soap you guys, soap.
Lisa Beres
This show can be summed up in one word, soap.
Dr. Victor Sanders
And you know, you're going to have a whole different a whole new economy in that we're bringing manufacturing jobs back to this us because we see that we saw that we relied on China, not only drugs or for PPP. So, if we can do it ourselves, we can create those jobs, a lot of jobs are forever lost.
Dr. Justyna Sanders
And I think it also creates this sort of new lens to look at the world and has brought in a different perspective of you know zoonotic diseases, and how we as humans are our relationship with Planet Earth and Mother Nature and how we're impacting that. How we can basically in the future, if we continue our practices, we already know there's going to be devastating, even more, devastating consequences. You think that this is bad, it's going to get even worse, worse, you're seeing fires, we're seeing so many things, so much devastation, diseases, is just going to keep happening. So, I think this is a wakeup call for all of us as humans to take action not only on an individual level but action on collectively in terms of humanity. And finally, take a stance and say no more, we're going to start changing things around, you know, implementing more plans and doing things that we know are better for us, the health of us and the health of humanity in general and the health of Mother Earth and everything and everything in it.
Lisa Beres
My gosh, so beautiful. That was beautifully said. Amen to that. I cannot agree more I. Again, this was so fantastic and people can learn more about you at prescription lifestyle calm. Well, thank you guys so much. I hope you enjoyed the show as much as we did. We appreciate you joining us today. You can learn more about us at Ron and lisa.com and be sure to tune in next week to find out what the heck is going on in your home.
Narrator
This episode of the healthy home hacks podcast has ended. But be sure to subscribe for more healthy living strategies and tactics to help you create the healthy home you've always dreamed up. And don't forget to rate and review so we can continue to bring you the best content. See you on the next episode.
Sign up to receive email updates
Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast.